Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/March 2008

tabs?

I wonder if it's possible for a page to split up into different parts using what appears to be a link to the "next" page by hiding the text until the learner continues to the next part of the chapter, by hiding the next part of the course behind the text and showing it on request. The reason is I don't want to have excessive number of pages created just to accommodate the different parts of the course, but worse would be to have pages that continue too long. I know it would be similar to tabbing using css, but this is wiki and I wonder if there is an easier method.--danthemango 12:24, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Why not use subpages? --McCormack 13:01, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

You know what, I think that'll work --danthemango 10:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

There are a number of options for navigating courses - one is a simple 'back, forward' link somewhere on the page (eg. at the top of Historical Introduction to Philosophy/General Introduction, and another is a more complex navigation box (ie template) that lists all pages in a course allowing you to hop from/to multiple pages of the course (eg. Course:WikiU Film School Course 01 - Learning the Basics of Filmmaking). There are other methods of page design which could allow for course navigation - see Portal:Social entrepreneurship (which has a sort of 'tabs'). Cormaggio ^talk 14:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that, and that's probably what I'll end up using. I won't use the complex list all of the pages list that some other pages have, because I remember reading some of these pages and that REALLY confused me. --danthemango 18:19, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

:-) <whisper>I still don't know how to write, for example, a wiki table from scratch - so I usually just copy code and modify it for my own purposes.</whisper> If I were to use something as complex as the social entrepeneurship portal, then I would say somewhere (perhaps on the talk page, or in the edit summary) where I got the code from. Cormaggio ^talk 08:53, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

There is no limit on the number of pages on a wiki. However, you may be interested in meta:User:Pathoschild/Scripts/AJAX transclusion table, which has been implemented on meta. Hillgentleman|Talk 01:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that script, it doesn't help me now, but I know it might come in handy later --danthemango 10:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

User:Mirwin

For all those who are not subscribed to the Wikiversity mailing list, I wanted to let you know that we have been notified of Mirwin's passing away. He's been with Wikiversity since the beginning and, while we didn't always agree, I still feel that his absence will be missed a lot here. sebmol ^? 09:48, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

That's very sad news. Out of respect for his passion, we should try to imagine what the citizens of the Lunar Boom Town would do with their fallen comrades, and perhaps hold a memorial on IRC and/or a make a letter of remembrance for his twin. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 10:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if there's any convention for deceased users (especially very active ones), but I would suggest a convention: hold the user's talk page open for condolences for a period of X days, and then protect the page thereafter. --McCormack 10:49, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

pro: I think have seen this "tradition" also at WP

@sebmol: what was the reason to remove the existing content of the user/talk page - can't just the template be put at begin of talk/user page ? We don't know, if mirwin would want this. Also, others still have the possibility to read easily info about him and info about him is not killed also :-( ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 14:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I've been checking around. The normal thing to do is to leave the user page in its last state - with a note at the top. --92.228.91.196 18:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I have restored the original page and then added the note at the top. --mikeu ^talk 22:06, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Very sad news indeed ... i've finally put 2 and 2 together and figured out that it was User:Mirwin who passed. I hope that Lunar Boom Town will continue in some fashion and that one day someone will discover its true genius. I've always found it to be a simultaneously confusing and fascinating learning project and one that used the wiki space in a truly unique way. We could, I think, learn a lot by the example Mirwin has left us. Countrymike 09:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Username Change

Could my username be changed to Terra, I know theirs a changing username page but I'm known as Terra on all wikimedia sites, and have stated that I'm known as Imperial on this one, Terra does exist on this site but I'm not sure whether I was the one who created it, but wondered if it would be possible to use the name. Terra ^{What do you want?} 18:36, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello, please put your request at: Wikiversity:Changing username (I saw you did this once). If this doesn't yield fast feedback, try contacting one of the bureaucrats please. ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 07:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Y Done I've moved it to the Changing Username Page. Terra ^{What do you want?} 08:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

help

Hi I am Tanvir. and i am the new user of wikiversity. so i have no know idea in this site. so any body help me of friendly mind. Thanks Tanvir Ahmed, --Opu 05:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

A warm welcome to you Tanvir ! Did you have some time to look on your talk page already ? There is some basic info. If you want, you can also give some info on you and your interests on your user page, then other people always can read more and join with you. ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 07:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Changes in Wikiversity staffing

Although the proposals have been live for a while now, I have a feeling that the only people to have seen them are recent-changes patrollers and those who have the pages in question on their watchlist! I'd like to encourage the community to become more actively involved in some of the most significant changes in Wikiversity staffing since foundation in August 2006. --McCormack 07:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

What's being proposed

• On 3rd March, SB_Johnny nominated himself as a bureaucrat (click here to discuss and vote).
• Shortly after this, Mikeu was also nominated for bureaucrat and has accepted the nomination (click here to discuss and vote).

These candidacies are not competitive; the two candidates have supported each other and cooperate a lot on IRC. WV can theoretically have many more bureaucrats, but consensus seems to be that "a few" bureaucrats is enough. --McCormack 07:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

also self nomination: Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship/Erkan Yilmaz (Bureaucrat) ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 17:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

A short history of bureaucrats at Wikiversity

Cormaggio was WV's 1st bureaucrat, probably installed as such when the software/server was set up. Cormaggio is a PhD student specialising on collaborative learning (i.e. he researches into precisely what Wikiversity does); he is widely known in the community, particularly for encouraging others. Unfortunately the real world has necessitated his frequent absence. Shortly after Wikiversity began, there was a spate of quickly appointing custodians and one further bureaucrat: sebmol (see discussion - worth reading to see how a bureaucrat gets elected on WV and what is expected of them). sebmol is only active on German Wikipedia; he visits WV rarely to perform required actions with bureaucrat tools. There was also the issue of the JWSchmidt nomination, which is rather incomprehensible to me and went on for 542 days without the candidate accepting; JWSchmidt now seems to be on an indefinite wiki-break. One of the side-effects of the long Schmidt-candidacy was that nobody else put themselves forward, despite the frequent absence of the two elected bureaucrats. Generally a feeling evolved that the resulting vacuum was not good and WV needed some bureaucrats who are present and active. Both SB_Johnny and Mikeu are very present, active, long-standing members of the community. --McCormack 07:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

What is a bureaucrat?

Wikiversity:Bureaucratship is a fairly useless page, but worth quoting is: "must be excellent judges of consensus... must also have the ability and willingness to thoroughly explain decisions or he or she makes...". Wikiversity talk:Bureaucratship is much more helpful, multi-facetted and exhaustive, illustrating what people here really thought about it. HappyCamper also make some thoughtful comments here. My own 2 cents is this: while there may be a lot of apparently humble talk about serving, tools and no big deals, actually bureaucratship is a very significant thing we all really need to think about, because, as it says everywhere, bureaucrats are the ultimate arbiters of consensus and therefore those with the ability to resolve conflict (if successful) or ruin things (if their interpersonal skills fail). In a healthy community, bureaucrat action will be infrequent, but when they are needed, they must exercise an excellence of judgment which many of us simply do not possess. --McCormack 07:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Is it possible to change the title here to perhaps: "Changes in WV participation" or "changes involving WV custodians and bureaucrats" ? Reason: I assume that a title like governance, government could influence people in their thinking already before they continue to read.

We should not build structures as in real life - we are a wiki - we are in a virtual world. We can eliminate the errors which happen in other wikis. Custodians/bureaucrats just have the tools, they should be seen as normal users as everyone else. If there is something like a government structure then there should be also reelections in certain intervals. I don't see such (see also [1]).

"a few" bureaucrats - why this ? Are they special somehow ? They just have some more options, which are less frequently used than the normal custod tools. Why shouldn't it be possible to have many more bureaucrats or making bureaucrat rotation (an option I am playing to introduce in the future at de.WV - I am b.cat at de.WV): giving people more tools helps them educate, getting more responsible, seeing behind the Wikiversity structure - something like: be a custod for x days - aren't there e.g. kiddo days at universities where they see how it looks like, so they get the appetite to chose this path (in the terms of that being custod/b.cat is a job that involves also tiring activities)? see also: Is mentorship the only path to custodianship?

"bureaucrats are the ultimate arbiters of consensus and therefore those with the ability to resolve conflict": this is again when thinking of b.cats as more than described above. It is definitely something which everyone should try to have. ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 09:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you know if there is any page at Wikiversity where people can offer their teaching skills in a certain field or area?

After looking for a while at the Community portal and trying with the search tool, I couldn't find this kind of page/list, where I can list myself for helping people with doubts about Spanish language and culture.

--Esenabre 06:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello Enric, at the Topic:Spanish page there is a box titled "Active Participants" where you could edit info. Also there is this page: Topic:Spanish/Active Participants. If you want you can also contact the other participants (e.g. User:Juan is quite active) to ask them - who knows perhaps they know more ? ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 08:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey Enric - see also Teemu's userpage for his userboxes detailing his "knowledge and skills". If this initiative were scaled up, people could have a searchable system to find people that could help them in a given area. Cormaggio ^talk 09:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Military science and intelligence (the latter broader than military)

Is there an existing place for such materials? I saw peace studies, and a reference to international relations.

Hcberkowitz 16:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome, with materials you mean you have existing material which you want to add ?

We have e.g. a page where you could start: Military science and also have a look at the Category:Strategic Studies. ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 16:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikiversity google search toolbar add-on

Which google search toolbar add-on do you recommend? -- Jtneill - Talk 04:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I tried all three - they don't do much. I really just want to add Wikiversity to my firefox search toolbar which already has wikipedia, google scholar, etc. listed. -- Jtneill - Talk 04:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

w:Wikiversity

Here we go again. The wikiversity article on wp has been tagged as being in need of primary sources. Mirwin (aka w:User:Lazyquasar) and I had been working on this at w:User:Mu301/Sandbox because we were getting to much grief w:Talk:Wikiversity#Applicability_Section trying to edit the live page. (I also copied the refs to Wikiversity:In the media. See also Wikiversity in the media.) The article does need some work, though I'm not sure how to improve it. The refs are not the best; some only mention wv in passing. Anyone want to help out on this? --mikeu ^talk 01:08, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I did some copyediting, but don't know any sources to add at the moment. Honestly I think we're dealing with trolling in this case, so there's little to be done about it. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 09:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the user page of the person who added the refs tag says it all really. Nevertheless, the article is worth improving because it undersells the good work here IMHO. -- Jtneill - Talk 14:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Yikes!

Leigh Blackall sent a message to the wikiversity-l list a few days ago asking about differences/similarities between Wikiversity and Wikieducator. But I want to highlight the following mail (which was only sent to the Wikieducator googlegroup). I've responded on wikiversity-l, but I'll repeat here, that it highlights just how badly Wikiversity explains and presents itself in its introductory pages. I'd encourage anyone with time and/or ideas to help out - perhaps revive or replace the decaying Wikiversity:Introduction Overhaul Taskforce. (Btw, I've made a start on Wikiversity:Getting involved, which was one of the pages which I think was cited in that mail.) Cormaggio ^talk 16:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Please also see Main Page 0.5. --McCormack 08:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Development stages

I popped over to wikibooks and set up a book. One concept which appealed to me was the notion of indicating the stage of development for each of a book's modules using b:Help:Development_stages in the table of contents. Has something similar been discussed/considered for wv? -- Jtneill - Talk 17:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

There is available: Wikiversity:Activity bars - but it seems not used ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 17:41, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Also Wikiversity:Percent complete... --Remi 17:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Interwiki links

I'm looking for a handy list of the prefixes for inter-wiki links. -- Jtneill - Talk 04:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I think this should apply here: w:Help:Interwiki linking#Project titles and shortcuts --Remi 05:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikiversity Vision 2009

This colloquium has been buzzing recently with new ideas about Wikiversity development - note especially the contributions of Cormaggio (now partly archived) and Jtneill. Some of this has been spilling over increasingly into the mailing list as well. I know there's a dozen threads I'd like to start here as well, but it could reach overload point. So I have created Wikiversity Vision 2009 as a hub for discussion of Wikiversity development. Please visit and contribute! --McCormack 07:23, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Firefox extension for Wikiversity?

Is there a firefox extension for wikiversity? e.g., it might add wikiversity toolbar search, bookmarks, etc. -- Jtneill - Talk 04:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

We do have a screen saver floating about, but I do not believe there is an extension. FTLD involves a potential extension written for a project. Those may be the closest things we have. --Remi 09:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

http://pmog.com/ wonder if it could be a kind of thread betweensites that travelswith you? lucychili 17:19, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

What colour would you like Wikiversity to be?

The new main page draft layout is pretty well ready now and waiting for feedback. As part of this process, I have made it possible for everyone to experiment with colours very easily. Instructions: (1) Copy and paste the following into a new subpage attached to your user page. (2) Modify the numbers and preview the resulting colour schemes until you find one you like. Each of the 8 numbers colours a box. If you find a combination you really like, add a hyperlink to your test page below so that others can view it. Oh - and here's an example. --McCormack 11:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Here's another example which colours things by column. --McCormack 15:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

{{:Main_Page_Layout_0.5
|intro=9
|feature=13
|project=12
|news=9
|nav=9
|sisters=10
|dev=1
|community=11
}}

Cool. And a link to the colour numbering scheme? -- Jtneill - Talk 14:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

User:Jtneill/Main_Page_Layout_0.5a (open checker)

User:Jtneill/Main_Page_Layout_0.5b (open blue)

-- Jtneill - Talk 14:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I prefer User:Jtneill/Main_Page_Layout_0.5b (open blue), plus User:McCormack has done well with the mainpage Layout. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 14:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

One of the criticisms levelled against Wikiversity has been that its main page is too blue and/or too formal. --McCormack 14:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

If that's the case then, it should be your version. And I had another look and it's been blue for a while so it should change. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 15:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, my version is rather party-like. With 14 colour schemes available for each box, the choice of possible combinations is vast. Most Wikimedia projects stick with 3 to 4 main colour maximum, so as not to overburden the visual senses of the visitor. I'd like to know what people's favourite colours are, and which combinations they prefer - then perhaps we could tone down the party feel a little, and change them around every few months or so. --McCormack 15:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Red, Black and Green but mainly Red those are what I sometimes prefer, even my signatures on wikimedia's websites. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 15:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, the available colour schemes are:

1. tan
2. mid green
3. slate blue
4. red
5. mauve
6. yellow
7. mid blue
8. orange
9. grey-green
10. sky blue
11. better mauve
12. light red
13. blue
14. grey

--McCormack 15:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Very Well, Red or grey. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 15:21, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I think I prefer the plain standard blue. Then what varies is the content - e.g. featured images, etc. It also helps the 'brand' colour to be permanently associated. If the colours change a lot, visitors may be inclined to not be sure which WM project space they're on. However, if party-ish style wins, then I'd suggest a closer comparison with proposed schemes and Wikieducator. -- Jtneill - Talk 15:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I've fiddled around and left it at: User:Cormaggio/Main Page Layout 0.5. Thanks for this McCormack - it's nice to be given a clear model for fiddling. :-) I'll leave other comments on Talk:Main Page 0.5. Cormaggio ^talk 21:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

So far I like this color: User:Jtneill/Main Page Layout 0.5b. Perhaps to minimize confusion and same effort for all: could we split the discussion into new pages like color, layout, other things (actually McCormack's idea)? And link them here ? There could be created also a gallery of let's say 10 proposals at start and we can work then from there ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 15:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Please feel free to continue: Main Page 0.5/Color proposals, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 18:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Colours of some other Wikimedia projects

• http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptseite: light blue; boring?
• http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portada: interesting use of colour and shape
• http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forside: slate blue and gold
• http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accueil: subtle; restrained; blue/green
• http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoofdpagina: orange and blue; interesting use of overlapping elements
• http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halaman_Utama: colourful and lots of icons
• http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki : remarkably similar to the English wikipedia
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page: green, blue, purple
• http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page: these guys are the artwork specialists; tan and blue, with boxes a little like we have at WV.

  --McCormack 16:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Embedding youtube, slideshare, etc.?

Just wondering where WV is at with regard to functionality for embedding youtube, slideshare, etc.? -- Jtneill - Talk 06:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

See MediaWiki Video Policy. --McCormack 07:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

You can see enabled extensions at Special:Version. For both above there are extensions available

• mw:Extension:SlideShare (beta status)
• mw:Extension:EmbedVideo (beta status)
• etc. means ?

Both are not enabled at the WV. If you want you could pose a request to get it enabled on the Sandbox Server and to see how it works there, see e.g. next request. ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 07:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

About Mediawiki extensions: there are loads of extensions at Mediawiki, most of which are experimental/beta, and most of which don't have a hope in hell of ever being activated. Basically, anyone can add an extension to the Mediawiki site (there are no restrictions at all, short of vandalism and the like) and many people do, with bright eyes and high hopes, start programming media extensions, only to find that the Wikimedia Foundation won't activate them. Occasionally extensions are activated, but they get examined very thoroughly first, especially with regard to their likely effects on the database, bandwidth, CPU time, etc. --McCormack 07:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info - I've added the requests to the next request sandbox server].

• For me personally, I mostly use slideshare (for lecture slides and eventually syncced audio) and less often youtube (I've seen an install using VideoFlash with no known problems). Longer than 10 min video I tend to use GoogleVideo, which VideoFlash also handles.
• The Google Map extension, similarly, I've seen working over a sustained period with no obvious problems, and it offers obvious educational potential.
• Likewise an RSS rendering extension would allow bringing in much rich content and mashing up, especially say feeds of students' blogs for a course.
• Google Calendar could for more dynamic management and coordination of learning events, allow students to receive reminders, etc.

As as far as I know, these extensions are all in sufficient beta status to warrant serious testing and probable implementation. IMHO, let's go for it!!! :) -- Jtneill - Talk 10:30, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Would be good to make sure that any media formats are partnered with the equivallent/useful info in another format, for accessibility and crossplatform use? lucychili 23:01, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikiversity:Approved_Wikiversity_project_proposal#Mission

In this section, Wikiversity/Scope should be changed to Wikiversity:Scope. -- Jtneill - Talk 15:10, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

done + thanks for your great eyes, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 15:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Society as ecology project (waiting for development in the incubator)

Thoughts welcome

• Wikiversity:Project_incubator
• Society as ecology
• Society as ecology/Brainstorming lucychili 11:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Using wikipedia images in wikiversity pages

How can this be done? I tried here: Linear correlation -- Jtneill - Talk 05:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I tried to two ways to embed - neither work

thumb|600px|center

File:W:Corr-example2.png

If the image is on Wikipedia and not at the commons, one way to rememdy the issue is to d/l the image off Wikipedia, upload it to commons, and at least at a minimum just make sure it has the same relavent copyright information and probably the url at Wikipedia at which you got the image. If the image that you see at Wikipedia is on Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) then just type "[[Image:the name of the image.jpg|thumb|right|300px|a description]]" with whatever parameters work best in your situation. Looks like it doesn't exist on Commons, so you may need to upload it there. --Remi 05:32, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

To make it a bit easier, you can also use commonshelper, which automatically uploads the license tags, links back to the original uploader, etc. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 10:17, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Way cool - it works! - thanks for explanation remi and link to tool sb_johnny. -- Jtneill - Talk 10:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget to tag the old image with {{subst:ncd}} to insert w:Template:NowCommons after the image has been copied. --mikeu ^talk 17:19, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

America

While Wikiversity is international, America needs its help more than any other developed nation. It has been more than twenty years now since a US Government report stated that in grades K through 12 America has committed "unilateral intellectual disarmament." Hundreds of books have been published and billions of dollars spent trying to reverse that trend, and today things are even worse than they were twenty years ago. As an American, naturally I would like to see American children given a chance to really learn (especially in my own field, mathematics). But I think everyone in the world would sleep better at night if the most heavily armed nation in the world were not also one of the most ignorant of developed nations.

The reason that all efforts to change American education for the better have failed is the local nature of the American school system. A person can work all their life to bring standards to one community. Many people have done this successfully. But it has no effect on the community thirty miles down the road, and after the reformer retires, a new school board usually comes in and changes everything back the way it was. If, after more than twenty years of effort, the public school system has not changed, there is reason to believe that public education in America cannot be fixed. I won't even go into the fact that Blacks and Hispanics are taught even worse than Whites, or that schools are major sources of crime and drugs.

The good news is that, in America, no child is required to go to school. Home schooling is allowed, is increasingly popular, and on standardized tests home-schooled students do much better than public school students.

Wikiversity obviously serves many home schooled students already, but Wikiversity has not yet caught on. Maybe it never will. There are countless "educational" sites on the web, most of them very bad: boring, stupid, and pointless. A few of them very good, but it is hard for a parent or child to find the good amid the bad. America needs a web school as good as, and as well known as, amazon, ebay, paypal, and Wikipedia. Maybe Wikiversity can become that school. Maybe some other web school will rise to the top. But somebody needs to do something soon.

If Wikiversity is to be the web school of choice, it needs:

1) a complete set of K-8 courses that are fun, accurate, and intellectually challenging. 2) a committee to monitor the courses to make sure they stay on track. 3) interactive courses, where the students are taught in small groups, given tasks to carry out in groups, and receive feedback from the instructor.

A parent needs to be confident that if they sit their child down at a computer connected to Wikiversity they can be sure their child is safe and getting good instruction. I also think that team taught courses are a good idea. Wikiversity needs a "school day" that parents can plan around. And, finally, Wikiversity needs publicity, lots of publicity.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Rick Norwood 13:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't think we're used by home schoolers that much just yet, but I do think it will probably end up being an early use. In general, we need content to build the community and community to build content (IOW, it's a chicken-and-egg question). Progress has been aggravatingly slow, but promisingly steady... it's going to take a few years though.

K-8 materials pose a different problem: Personally I wouldn't want my children to be using wikis by themselves at that age, due to the (occaisionally very inappropriate) vandalism that's somewhat endemic to wikis. Over time, stable versions of materials could be hosted separately, though this would to some degree mean losing the participatory element of Wikiversity, which is certainly important. On the other hand, there are some interesting textbooks being developed on Wikibooks (as part of the Wikijunior project), and as textbooks these don't really lose anything by being printed out or otherwise moved to a "non-wiki" format. Developing pre-K through 8 materials as a cross-wiki collaboration may be our best approach. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 13:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Has a relationship between WV and w:OLPC been explored? This could help drive developments in this area. -- Jtneill - Talk 00:45, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

There is: One Laptop Per Teacher: Content and Curriculum for (in-service) Teacher Training - This paper proposes structure and content for in-service training of teachers in the use of "One Laptop Per Teacher", an idea related to One Laptop Per Child. ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 08:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

There have been countless plans, like the OTPC plan, and, as I mentioned, billions of dollars spent. But the schools are still broken and need a replacement. Maybe Wikiversity is it, maybe not.

As for providing material kids can trust, as I mentioned above, monitors will be required. A kid is not going to be hurt by an occasional "fuck". Kids today use language that would make a sailor blush. But kids do need protection from sexual predators, and so somebody has to monitor every course, to make sure none of the teachers are getting inappropriately personal. If Wikiversity does not want to get involved in that (and who would) then some other website will need to become the school of choice. Rick Norwood 16:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's not really "bad language" I was worried about, but point taken. As for monitoring for other sorts of inappropriate behavior: we're probably not so ill-prepared for that, since the Wikipedians have developed a pretty good system over the years to deal with such issues. We do have most of the tools (various kinds of blocks are available, and we have two Checkusers on call, and if we need oversight (a kind of "super deletion" that permanently and completely removed edits that might contain inappropriately personal information), we can easily reach one of the stewards. The Wikimedia Foundation also has a legal department available for really bad situations.

I'm not at all sure, however, that Wikiversity (or any website) is ever going to be a "replacement" for schools. Face-to-face human reactions are core elements of an education, and even home schooling involves interaction with the parents. Helping teachers to teach better (whether professionals or parents) will probably be among our core services here, rather than acting as substitutes for them. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 17:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

You are probably right, the replacement for schools will probably be a commercial venture, like google or paypal, rather than wikiversity. For the personal interaction part, students should gather in classes and there should be two-way webcams. As for fixing the public schools in America (and, to an ever greater extent, in the UK, though UK schools are still an order of magnitude better than American schools) as I've outlined above, I believe the current system (local control) cannot be changed or fixed, only replaced. Rick Norwood 12:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Image caption not working

Can anyone work out why my image caption isn't working here: Exploratory_factor_analysis/Lecture_notes#Conceptual_models? -- Jtneill - Talk 07:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Works now ;-) --McCormack 07:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Special characters

I'm looking for how to do special characters. e.g., instead of <---> I'd like to use a single-character symbol. -- Jtneill - Talk 03:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

←→ ←→ (using big tags) --Remi 03:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

wow, thanks, so does that mean i can do this?

☺ -- Jtneill - Talk 05:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

it would seem so ☺ --Emesee 08:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

BTW, not all browsers will render all special characters correctly. Just something to keep in mind. --mikeu ^talk 12:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Spam Blocker preventing real work

This has happened a few times now. Hello geniuses, your spam blocker is stopping me from making legitimate edits. Of COURSE I refer to other pages you jerks! I know you want to stop spam, but you are preventing me from making needed updates and edits by your indiscriminate implimentation. I'm really angry now that I CANNOT do my work because you've automated this into stupidity. Please, use some common sense and stop computer geeking your way into uselessness. Just because there is an outside link does NOT make it spam! TWFred 20:24, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello, could you tell us the IP with which that happens ? Please keep in mind, that bugs may appear at any time - e.g. side effects by other external things (software changes, ...).

Your ton above (e.g. jerks) shows you are angry, please give us detailed info, so we can help you feel comfortable. Help us, helping you. ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 20:30, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thx to this info by you this could be fixed preliminary. By removing the link which contains this IP: 209<dot>85<dot>135<dot>104, see [2] - test edit with IP worked afterwards, see [3], ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 20:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Erkan, you are awesome. Thank you very much. Sorry about the anger, but...well, you guys know how it is when work is lost inexplicably. Looks like it's fixed now. TWFred 21:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I hope you did not lose too much data. :-( ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 21:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

a teacher / researcher needs help

I'm Jeroen Clemens [4] a teacher in a secondary school in the Netherlands and for one day a week I do research on CSCL ( Computer Supported Collaborative Learning). See my user page for more details.
My students have made a WIKI, concerning Enlightment in Philosophy and English and Dutch literature. I'm afraid its in Dutch. In my research I look at three questions: 1. how do the students collaborate online, 2. how do the students work on interdiscilinary cohesion online / in the wiki and 3. How does working this way influences their motivation to learn. What I have to do now is to look at the data and get a clear picture of how students did work online. This means to categorize speech acts etc.
I'm still not happy with the way I do this now. Does anybody have sugestions how I could work on this, especially the qualitative analysis? There must be research projects where they have figured out interesting ways of doing this. Or is there another project in wikiversity were they collaborate on this research issue?? Jeroencl 16:42, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I started a discussion already on the The Wiki_in_education page
I continued on a new project Macedonia-Netherlands project in which my students collaborate with students from a school in Macedonia ( in English).Jeroencl 22:21, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jeroen - I missed all the previous discussion, because I've been writing a paper for the last week on "Collaborative research in Wikiversity" ;-). All my research is based on qualitative analysis, so I very much want to help here. Basically, the process of qualitative data analysis is, firstly - surprise, surprise - read the data. :-) What is going on here? What are the dynamics of the group? What are people saying/doing, and what are people not saying/doing? Check yourself while doing this - don't jump to conclusions, but hold thoughts as working hypotheses - continually referring to the data to enrich, and self-critique, your developing understanding of the data. Probably the best way to start this would be with a form of "grounded theory" (eg), which is simply a method of building categories, and then meta-categories, while always 'staying close to the data'. In any case, I propose we set this up as a learning-and-research project - how about Enlightenment course research for a start? (Please suggest a better title - or we can always rename it after.) Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Cormac, I've been busy also with other things, but now I will work on my research again. I'm happy you're interested in this. I Enlightment Course research page would be great. I'm working on e Macedonia-Netherlands WIKI CSCL project also and started a project with a school on Aruba. How shall I start the research page? The Enlightment wiki is in Dutch, so that will be a problem for most of you. But this project is my research task, the other two are sort off spinn-offs. As you can see on my User page, I'm a teacher-researcher very much interested in ICT and education.Jeroencl 12:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello Jeroencl, by clicking on the (no more red) link above. I have created it for you and put in a welcome template. Feel free to continue: Enlightenment course research , ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 12:54, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I've actually just completed a short in class presentation on Wikis, and am quite interested in the future of wikis and their impact on education. I'm a strong advocate of the Wiki way and will take a peek at the resources you mention. Welcome aboard! Historybuff 17:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

RSS Reader testing on Sandbox server

Thanks to installation by Darklama, the RSS Reader extension has been installed on the sandbox server. Please come and try it out and discuss: RSS Reader -- Jtneill - Talk 15:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Unified Log-in

What's all this hyper about the Unified Log-in, there's a lot of discussion going on about the Unified Log-in on Wikipedia, but wondered if any of you knew about it. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 20:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Have a look here and here, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 20:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Image licensing issues: the deadline approaches!

I was chatting with Mike.lifeguard about this the other night, and he left the following on my Wikibooks talk page:

<snip> == Licensing ==

Here's the Foundation resolution: foundation:Resolution:Licensing policy. It sets out the deadline (o noes!) as well as a relatively clear outline of what must be included in the EDP (= fair use policy). Points of interest:

1. All media must be free
2. If they're not, then you must have a fair use policy with certain characteristics:
   • Media identified in a machine-readable format (that means templates)
   • EDPs must be minimal, and then sets out what that means
   • Free alternatives must be used where possible
   • Anything not in compliance must be deleted
3. For projects without an EDP currently (that's both here, and WV too)
   • New media that are not free start getting deleted beginning March 23 2007 <- Wikibooks does this already; WV doesn't, so you're past the deadline by nearly a year.
   • Put together an EDP if you want one (which presumably WB and WV both do)
   • Old media must be brought into compliance by March 23 2008 <- that's the deadline I'm talking about for Wikibooks
4. "This policy may not be circumvented, eroded, or ignored on local Wikimedia projects." (emphasis theirs)

So now we have a rule other than common sense that tell us we need to get on this :)  – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 04:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

</snip>

Just a note: we have a new bot operator on Wikibooks that is dealing with a lot of this. Mike has that script now, and I think it might be a good idea to have him run it so we can see what we're dealing with. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 10:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

This is something that I've done a bit of work on. Wikiversity:Notices_for_custodians#images_and_copyright One of the big problems that I had was that many students from one particular learning project were uploading images faster than I could resolve the issues. Education is key to prevention. There were many images that I found that were copied from wp or commons. Sounds fine from a license point of view, except that the uploaders sometimes did not include the license info, or a link to where they got the image from (no mention of original author), or sometimes even changed the license. I left repeated notes for some of the users and got no response. There were a couple that I was tempted to block for a few days after 3 warnings for copyvio uploads. I support running a bot to help us identify which images we need to cleanup or remove. I also see no problem with requiring license templates on all images. Not only is this machine readable, but the template contains links to the full license terms. Someone downloading from wv needs to know what the terms are, and they need to be correct. There are also problems with our templages User:Mu301/No_thanks. I have corrected some of the links in templates to point to the correct page, but there are probably more. Our exemption policy and use of screenshots needs to be clarified. For a while I was watching the image uploads closely, but it was tedious work and I started to fall behind. Our instructions for uploaders is not very clear. I have seen many instances where people just choose something like GFDL-self for every image they find on the net and upload here. --mikeu ^talk 13:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

We ended up blocking some students on Wikibooks over similar issues, and had immediate and positive results... so certainly you shouldn't feel too shy about doing that if they're just making more work for others. Clarifying the instructions would be good, or perhaps even better try to figure out how commons changed the Mediawiki on the sidebar (hitting "upload file" there actually brings you into a tutorial page, which would be much better for us). I personally don't know much about the fair use stuff (seems nonsensical to me), but if we're going to allow it, we should perhaps copy the policies and templates in use on Wikipedia for now, then tweak them if and when it becomes necessary down the line. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 00:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the way that the Wiki Commons upload works is very good. It would seem designed to prevent a number of these problems. -- Jtneill - Talk 12:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I have imported the policy page to Wikiversity:Licensing policy. Please use the talk page to discuss implementation. --mikeu ^talk 00:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Saturday, 29.3.2008: online meeting of reading group

Thucydides

We would like to invite interested persons to our next reading group meeting (Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War) this Saturday at 14:30 UTC. We will begin a new book (see status).

The discussion normally takes about 1-2 hours. Even if you can not read the 25 aphorisms before (takes about 20 mins), we can give you a quick intro. My history teacher always told: history is better than e.g. mathematics because you can join at any time. So, why don't you lurk ?

Still interested ? Click here.

P.S. if the time doesn't fit for you, I am sure we can find another time frame. ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 17:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Sister Projects Interview

See w:User:OhanaUnited/Sister Projects Interview for future w:Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost feature. --mikeu ^talk 21:41, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Interesting OhanaUnited wants to speak with only one person at a time

Question: Why not do this with more people e.g. in a chat ? We could tell all who have the custodian flag to join at that time. This will ensure that the information seeker will meet all interested people (isn't the goal of the interviewing person to get the best info?). We could even post the chat afterwards.

So, and now another thing: the selection of people who possess the custodian flag is a little - how should I say - you tell me :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 22:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

So everybody, there is now the chance to present WV in good light :-) User:OhanaUnited/Sister Projects Interview, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 18:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I do have my reason for wanting to chat with one person at a time (and it's a good reason). If 2 interviewees provide contradicting comments, it won't look good on a project when they're actively looking for more participants. And doing it via email provides secrecy so that the interviewee can answer the questions without worrying about screwing up (because they're offered a chance to change their answers without anyone knowing about it) OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 19:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

For me personally that is too much secrecy :-)

All people here can together as unit add the different views (e.g. on that page or in a chat session) and later merge to "one WV voice". Earliest date that page will be published was April 14 ? Are these the only questions or will come more ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 19:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the earliest date is that, because wikisource took March 31 and meta took April 7. There might be more questions, but I'm not sure. If you guys want to say something outside of these questions, feel free to add them and then I'll add the question that will correspond to your answer. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 20:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

your voice counts

So, let's start this then: anybody interested in giving his thoughts to the outside world ? How about starting on the talk page ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 00:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

chat session ?

If somebody is interested we could make a chat session ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 00:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

possible dates:

• Saturday 5th April

• ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 00:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
• --mikeu ^talk 17:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

• other date ?

copied to here, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 18:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Request for archiving/moving of Wikiversity:Mission and Wikiversity:Scope

Could someone archive much of the material currently at Wikiversity:Mission, so that we can use that page for more clearly presenting the current mission. That way, we can have Wikiversity:Vision, Wikiversity:Mission, Wikiversity:Slogan, Wikiversity:Motto, etc. pages with current info -- Jtneill - Talk 02:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, could this be archived, so we can replace it with just the current scope? Wikiversity:Scope. (I would move these pages, but they're protected I think and are notable pages, so would prefer someone more experienced to take a look). -- Jtneill - Talk 12:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

My vague thoughts here are: we have so many (very old) introductions and broad statements about Wikiversity on so many disconnected pages that perhaps what we should be doing is reducing and consolidating. If we updated every page of this kind which had ever been created, it would be an unending task. Mind you, I'm not standing in the way of anyone adopting an unending task! Let me hold the door open with flowers to accompany. Suggested procedure: create your new pages as subpages of the original page (e.g. NameOfPage/2.0 ) and then when your new version is complete, a custodian can move them around. Mind you, if you continue contributing at this rate (771 edits in 3 weeks), you'll probably have those tools in your possession before long anyway ;-) --McCormack 08:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with consolidating - I think we have too many introductions to Wikiversity, and would benefit from a smaller number of well-written and well-coordinated pages interlinked from prominent pages. However, I strongly oppose deletion, as some of these pages are important to the history and context of Wikiversity - what I would advise is to archive anything that is redundant, and use them in developing introduction pages, and informing Wikiversity:History of Wikiversity. Cormaggio ^talk 12:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Wiki Research could be Sold for Fundraising

Current fundraising needs beg a saleable product of value in the free-market. Under US tax laws, the only items allowed to be sold are those created with volunteer labor. Principally within wikimedia projects, the work product of volunteer labor is information, yet the purpose of these resources is to be free for all (nmtp). A potential source of fundraising income is available in Custom Research Projects which might be commissioned by parties in exchange for a donation. Although granted, the majority of work products within the Wiki family will be freely available to the public, the result of the collaborative efforts in this venue are eventually to be Research Reports which could be produced according to contracted specifications and for the purpose of supporting the foundation. These should be freely available but could also be the property of the comissioning donor. --Gustable 20:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC) (re-posted from Talk:Research)

Thanks for re-posting here, Gustable (I had missed this comment). But I'm not sure I understand what you're proposing - research done on Wikiversity will be available under the terms of Wikiversity's licence (GFDL). This will be permitted for commercial use (eg selling), and some of this selling could even be done by the WMF (just as German Wikipedia DVDs have been available for sale for a few years now). Is this the kind of thing you're proposing, or something else? Cormaggio ^talk 13:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Summer of Code

From Brion Vibber via Planet Wikimedia, I see that Google's annual Summer of Code is open again. It's a genuine opportunity for people interested in MediaWiki to develop a tool that might be of use in Wikimedia. There's a page on Wikiversity:Technical needs if anyone needs any ideas, and any work done might be away to revive MediaWiki Project. Even if you couldn't contemplate hacking/developing mediawiki, you could add ideas for nifty or necessary tools here, or on the above pages. Cormaggio ^talk 10:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for drawing attention to these pages. I was previously completely unaware of them! One thing I missed: your idea for completely rewriting MediaWiki from scratch. Otherwise the requests look very modest indeed. --McCormack 11:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes! I agree that the pages are very modest - please shake them up a bit.. :-) Cormaggio ^talk 16:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I was hoping you or someone else would shake them up! I can't really think what else WV needs at the moment (other than things which would totally violate Wikimedia policy; and I'm not really in favour of doing that). My own imagination, within the constraints set by Wikimedia policy, is a little limited. On the other hand, I do have the technical know-how to comment on feasibility of ideas and perhaps help implement them. --McCormack 18:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, well, I think there are plenty of things on Wikiversity:Technical needs that would be really cool to have, but apart from the wiki<->pdf converter, I don't know of anything else being done. Actually, looking again makes me realise they aren't that modest - if we had a really good search mechanism (better than Mayflower on Commons), a malleable tagging/metadata system (interfaceable with other (OER) sites' systems), a way for people to synch files on their desktop with pages in Wikiversity, a way for allowing more rich, 'Flash-like' interfaces - I think we would have made more than significant improvements to Wikiversity. :-) Those are practical things that, if someone would start, I hope they would find support from within the Wikimedia/Mediawiki developer community (a community I would like to reach out to more). My own imagination is limited by the technical end of things - I literally haven't a clue what is possible (or, at least, realistic) - and I hope someone more technically clueful can contribute to my/our understanding. (Please consider this conversation an attempt to figure out what is indeed possible, and how we might be helped or limited.) So, what in Wikimedia policy is limiting you? (I'm guessing it might be Flash-related - but there may be other potential solutions if this conversation was widened slightly - involving developers and the wider Wikimedia community.) Cormaggio ^talk 11:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I had a go at Wikiversity:Technical needs. People may wish to inspect the damage. --McCormack 07:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

On the other side, how do students get SoC projects? Does one apply directly to Google, or to the mentor org? Seems I might be eligible, and I couldn't think of a better place to help, if it's possible and allowed by the rules. :) Historybuff 06:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Anyone's eligible, as far as I know. Though Brion said in his blog post that Wikimedia has had "limited success" because of a shortage of mentors. If you are interested, I would contact Brion about it - and I would imagine it might be an idea to first have some sense of what you'd be interested in doing. But it'd be really cool if you were to do something for this! Cormaggio ^talk 23:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response Cormaggio. Is there anything that WV needs done, specifically? The suggestions one the MW page have a video project that might be interesting. There are a few Mentoring organizations that look interesting. I'm hoping to get accepted by one of these projects, and if I am, I'll be documenting the experience here at WV. Historybuff 19:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I've taken a look at Wikiversity:Technical needs and there is some good meaty stuff there. I'm glad to help refine this down. Now, Brion has indicated that the core team will be limited in the number of mentors that they can make available -- is anyone here up to the task?

We should also be working on promoting SoC in our daily work -- as it's a tremendous opportunity to bring new people on board into Open Source while giving them some cash for the deal. Historybuff 20:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Msg now also at beta + de.WV about it, application period for students is from 24.-31.3. - besides Wikiversity:Technical needs is also listed at the project page. We should do a prio of the features also (see Wikiversity:Vision_2009#Technology_goals).

If there is a shortage in mentors there, why don't we use this as opportunity ? e.g. motivate some of us to help in a 24h-service by rotating shifts and listing the progress/communication on a page here at WV, so the others have all info which is talked (in email or IRC) ? Who is interested ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 20:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I am willing to take on an advisory role, but as I'm going to apply, I can't also be a mentor in this go (Google's rules). I'm also going to take a peek at the todo lists above, and see if I can put together one application for Mediawiki work. Historybuff 17:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, as the deadline has been extended, I'm going to try and pursue a proposal for GSoC for the WV technical needs stuff. Maybe we can clean it up a bit, and isolate what still needs doing? Historybuff 06:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

meetups

There's a page at w:Meetup for scheduling in person meetings of wiki editors. A post here prompted me to see if there is any interest in holding a meetup in my local area. So, I created a page to plan this. Any interest in creating some kind of meetup coordination page here? --mikeu ^talk 16:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

pro: French + German Wikiversity have also such pages. ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 16:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Me as a dutchman will have a hard time to arrange meetups. I seem to be the only active one around. Perhaps i can start a Dutch Wikiversity and see who will come by to join. The good thing about a Dutch Wikiversity would be that it is easy to meet in a small area. Only Dutch and Belgians will come.--Daanschr 17:38, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Another option: if there is not much interest in the Dutch WV, joining Dutch WP meetings and see if someone is willing to participate in Dutch WV ? ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 17:48, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that could be an option.--Daanschr 17:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

(cut and paste, after edit conflict) That is why I started my meetup planing page at wikipedia. I don't even know if there are any wikiversity editors within a reasonable distance of my area. I may also post a note at commons or meta. Perhaps you could ask around at beta or Dutch wikipedia? --mikeu ^talk 17:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

See Wikiversity:Meetup. --mikeu ^talk 02:54, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess it is better to first wait untill there are Dutch Wikiversitans. I just looked at the meetups of Wikipedia and i don't think that i can get participants for Wikiversity from there. There only a few people coming at such meetups. There is a Dutch Wikimedia Union which seems to be very dull. What i like is that people have a certain creativity, to imagine and cange something.Daanschr 08:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Daan, I know plenty of Dutch Wikimedians who are interested in Wikiversity, and possibly interested in setting up a Dutch Wikiversity. And they're all great people. ;-) I'll add links on your talk page...

Re:Meetups in general - yeah, Wikipedia is almost certainly the most active place to organise meetups - but it might be best to organise these on meta (where email notification is turned on). Cormaggio ^talk 10:04, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I think meetups are a fantastic idea, but our user community is still quite geographically dispersed and it's unlikely we could muster a fair sized group except by lots of travel. However, we could always do a virtual meetup, or, as a part of Wikiversity outreach, a real meeting with either Wikipedia or academic people to make them more aware of us. Someone even printed buttons and flyers, I think we should revive them! :) Historybuff 06:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

RSS for this page?

The RSS feed listed for this page at the top seems to have postings from 2007, i.e., not current? -- Jtneill - Talk 13:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

And so it does. I'm wondering if we might have a borked rss extension, or something to that effect? I will do a little research into this. Historybuff 19:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems that RSS is still busted for this page. Does anyone know how this works? If not, I'll put it on the WV tech needs page. Historybuff 06:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Finding content on Wikiversity - the navigation

One of the big questions at WV is how we should structure our content, and whether or not university-like faculties are used. The site redesign of 3 months ago highlighted the existing portals structure (right-hand side of main page), with positive comments that there should be main page navigation at all, but also comments that this looked too much like a university. Oddly, only two out of the ten subject-related portals call themselves "faculties", and even here, the university metaphor is otherwise almost absent. In fact, it's striking how little like university faculties these portal pages are. Anyway, I think we have to start structuring content better (and with multiple alternative paths). The best organisation of content which I have seen on any Wikimedia project is Wikimedia Commons. This would require quite some rethinking to apply to Wikiversity, but it is perhaps a model worth taking as a basis. --McCormack 17:43, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

What about User:Terra/Portal as a Quick Portal, it includes links to different area's I could add more. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 18:45, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Terra. For the kind of thing you are currently building, it might be useful to look at Template:About Wikiversity, Template:Using Wikiversity, Template:Administering Wikiversity and Template:Learning innovation. In this thread I was looking more specifically at the issue of locating content on WV (i.e. actual learning objects, in principle via such means as school subject categories, university faculty categories, topics, etc.). Currently I'm experimenting with <categorytree>. --McCormack 18:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'll look through the links, you've provided at least this is keeping occupied which I like. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 18:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I've had a look at it, and seems interesting, however would this User:Terra/Help Contents be a possible replacement someday on the official one Help:Contents the old one could be transfered as a site map and the new one could be put into use, or I could improve it a bit more depending what user's say, the original template is on Wikipedia's Help Content but theirs is easier to Navigate around the site and decided to do one on this one however I created it in my subpage just as a Pre-caution, but am wondering if this could be put into some use or leave it in my subpage for the time being. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 19:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Terra. Yes - I saw you working on that earlier today. Looks like a good page. The templates I made are for putting onto other pages, but we also need a "real" page that guides through all this stuff, such as the one you are making. It would be good to coordinate the content of the templates with your help contents page. --McCormack 19:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

What are suggesting, shall I create more templates to improve Wikiversity or possibly transfer the User:Terra/Help Contents and replace the current one and move the original page and rename it as a sitemap. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 19:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I've included some of the template links you've provided and placed the links in User:Terra/Help Contents which the templates themselves have links to various pages throughout Wikiversity I thought it maybe useful to include it. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 20:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd like us to take another look at this as well: Wikiversity_learning_model/Discussion_group#A_4-pronged_approach. Countrymike 19:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I've read the topic which Countrymike provided but it doesn't make sense to me, up until recently I've been active on Wikiversity a lot more, but aren't aware what the topic is about. Terra ^{Welcome to my talkpage} 19:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Now that I've been here a year, worked with, added, and forgotten (!) about content, my first impression remains: It's still difficult to find things at Wikiversity.

We, for good or bad, have a wiki mindset, and we can't expect visitors to have one, or to become immersed in one. Wikipedia doesn't force a wiki mindset on people, and neither should we, realistically, if we want to be successful. We have to remember our purpose is to connect learners to learning materials. If we are losing learners by being difficult to navigate, well, frankly, we're failing.

Portals are good if you know what the heck a portal is. I've been on the Internet since before the WWW was invented and I still only have a fuzzy idea of what a portal is. So, while portals might be good for Wikipedians or returning Wikiversitians that have a clue, there are a vast army of learners that don't even want to know what a portal is.

I'm not attacking the portals, btw. I'm trying to draw attention to the fact that we really need to figure out how novice users can make use of WV. Once novices become interested in what we have, then they might start to look around, and bingo -- portals come into play. But we should never lose sight of someone's first visit here, but it is easy enough to do. Historybuff 06:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Colloquium - evolution?

This "Colloquium" works obviously - people use it well. However, it is messy, long, and I think confronting for new users. I just noticed that wikimania2008 has a rather nice clean looking/feeling forum - Wikimania Community Portal. Perhaps something like that could be next evolution of the Colloquium? -- Jtneill - Talk 00:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, the "community portal" is nice (I'm rather fond of a more spartan decor for main pages), but I'm not quite sure about breaking up the colloquium yet. The high level of things going on here is actually a fairly recent phenomenon, possibly related to spring energies among us northern hemispherites :). Wikibooks broke up the "Staff Lounge" (since renamed "Reading Rooms") some time ago, and at least for me it hasn't been as good as the single forum (too many pages to keep track of, not enough time in the day). JWSchmidt at one point was trying to get something called "liquid thread" enabled, but I'm not sure what that is (or what the devs think about it). --SB_Johnny | ^talk 15:38, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I can see your point - it could easily kill discussion off to break it up prematurely. Perhaps it works to have the general colloquium, from which specific topics can spin off if they get particularly active (e.g., Wikiversity:Vision 2009). Multiple discussion places could also detract from encouraging people into talking on learning project pages, which in general I think should be encouraged. Nevertheless, worth looking more closely at how other projects are going with multi-room discussion fora. Here is another one: Wikibooks:Reading room. -- Jtneill - Talk 11:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed that commons:Commons:Village_pump uses a general forum, but it looks neater than here because its headings are structured by day (based on initial posting date). What do others think about this as a way to keep a single forum, but make it a little tidier? -- Jtneill - Talk 06:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried the enhanced talk gadget? See this screenshot for an example. Go to My Preferences and select Gadgets tab to enable. --mikeu ^talk 11:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Colloquium actually has a dedicated bot that sweeps up postings that are older then a certain date (thanks Sebmol :)). The trick is to get the balance right, you don't want stuff hanging around too long, but when people are away, you don't want the cupboard looking too bare. If it's getting too cluttered, I can pick up the archiving pace a bit and see if that helps short term.

Liquid threads was originally something to allow cross page discussion, if I read the docs right. We were looking for something like liquid threads, that would create collapse/expandable topics. My suggestion is to add it to WV tech needs, and maybe it'll get considered there. Historybuff 07:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

transwiki import

I just imported Speech Fundamentals from wb. It was mentioned in irc that Transwiki should be a real namespace instead of pseudo. That way when importing you can select to put pages in that namespace, among other reasons. I would also like to look at adding WP as a place to import from. Or better yet, just add "upload import" as described at meta:Help:Import. Comments, ideas, suggestions? --mikeu ^talk 00:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

• pro - would certainly help: Wikiversity:Wikimedia Garbage Detail, ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 16:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

At least add en.Wikisource please. I just spent a lot of time importing from xml - but that seems not to work good with many revisions (e.g. server errors during upload or the files don't have all revisions)

If possible enable it for all English projects (English Wikisource, English Wikipedia, English Wiktionary, English Wikiquotes, etc) ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 03:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

• Yup, to both - Transwiki namespace is a very useful thing to have (we've had it on wikibooks for quite some time, and it makes importing from encyclopedias to subpages a lot easier), and there are certainly plenty of good things we could import from wikipedia given the tools --SB_Johnny | ^talk 16:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
• Any wiki with transwiki import enabled should have a Transwiki: namespace; I don't know why that's not the case here. I believe that upload import will not be enabled on WMF wikis because it is insecure (the xml can be edited), but transwiki import would be enabled upon request (with consensus shown). I'd suggest enabling import from Wikipedia, and Meta at a minimum. – Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 03:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
• Support. --McCormack 20:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

As it seems we can now import from: Wikipedia, Wikibooks, betawikiversity, Wikiquote and Wikisource
but lost import possibility from meta and incubator in the update :-) see Special:Import, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 17:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)