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"Education [...] is a process of living and not a preparation for future living." — John Dewey (discuss)

Draft Space CleanupEdit

12-month moving average pageviews before and after introduction of draftspace (dotted line)

I have tagged all Draft: namespace resources that were unedited in the last 150 days with a 30-day proposed deletion. See Category:Proposed deletions to review. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 18:42, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I use draftspace a lot and I agree with this policy. People with items up for deletion have a number of options:
  1. Improve the article in draft space or argue that it is complete and does not need improving.
  2. Move the draft into mainspace and see what happens
  3. Move the draft into your own userspace
  4. Save a permalink in your userspace. I like the latter because I can easily index them in case I ever want to complete the project. I keep a dated index of them at the bottom of my sandbox.I think it's OK to list them as external links by selecting "Permament link" under the "Tools" sidebar and saving the external link. The links look like this:
Nobody can be certain about this, but there is good reason to hope that removing the clutter from Wikiversity will make it a more popular resource.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 22:24, 1 December 2019 (UTC) -I added a new option and placed it first Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 13:37, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
Just FYI but the increase in popularity of Wikiversity coincides with the beginning and continuation of the WikiJournals. It also doesn't reflect that while the popularity of Wikiversity is increasing the number of new editors is decreasing. Wikiversity is the only WMF project with increasing popularity! --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 12:19, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
Also, as mentioned before, Google searches our Draft space. Resources that had high popularity before being put into Draft space had their popularity begin to recover once readers could find it in Draft space. Draft space does not improve resources, editors do! We need to address why we keep losing new editors! --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 12:29, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
I just did the math: according to Wikiversity:Statistics/2019/10 WikiJournals, and subpages, for 0.65% of the total request during that month. Rainwater harvesting is more than twice (1.77%) as popular. According to pageviews the rainwater top page is an order of magnitude more popular than any Journal landing page.[1] Correlation does not imply causation. The data supports that your observation is merely a coincidence. --mikeu talk 17:56, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
Actually, Rainwater harvesting has had no substantial added content editing since June 2016 when it was abandoned by its principal editor. Just reversals of vandalism have been occurring since primarily. Its popularity may have more to do with topic preference of our readers than any "cleanup" using Draft space. Coincidence results from causation per coincidence counting that increases with time. --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 02:25, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
Note: MediaWiki:Robots.txt discourages search engine crawlers from retrieving urls in Draft space. If search engines are indexing drafts despite this we should look into other methods of blocking such as including a template with __NOINDEX__ in it. If a draft isn't ready to become a mainspace resource, it's not ready for indexing. --mikeu talk 16:34, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
I've created {{NOINDEX/DRAFT}} to address this. It adds __NOINDEX__ to pages only while they are in the Draft namespace. I will work on adding this to each Draft: page. I will also check What links here to verify that main pages aren't linking to draft resources. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 23:55, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
All main space links to draft resources have been removed, except for a few that are about or referencing Draft: pages rather than directing users to draft pages. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 03:05, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

This brings up a question: what is the default for indexing draft space? I wasn't sure, so I modified robots.txt but don't know if that is actually doing anything. IMO, NOINDEX should be the default for all pages in draft and user space. If that is not the case we may want to open a phab request. --mikeu talk 02:01, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Forming a User GroupEdit

It's only just sunk in that Wikiversity has no dedicated user group. There's the WikiJournal User group, but that has a rather specific remit. There's the Wikipedia & Education User Group, but that's broader and more focused on Wikipedia. There's the WikiToLearn User Group, but that's focused on the website.

Compare that to e.g. :

A thematic, multilingual User Group for Wikiversity would be valuable to represent and promote the interests of Wikiversity users as a whole at Strategy Summits and similar could be valuable (If there's a logical place to also post on then please repost/redirect from there). They are relatively simple to set up (Eligibility and Process). T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 05:09, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Can you give me an idea of how you think the above user groups have helped those respective sister projects? —Justin (koavf)TCM 07:40, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
I think the main aspect is that they have been pretty key voices in reducing Wikipedia-centrism in the strategy process (each UG nominates a strategy liaison to participate in ongoing discussions and aid the working groups), and at the Berlin Strategy summit. They've also been pretty useful as multi-lingual points of contact. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 00:27, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Thoughts about the latest community wishlistEdit

Hi everyone, maybe you could be interested participating to this discussion about the community wishlist and how to improve the process. Do not hesitate to give your opinion; the more we will know about the small communities, the more we can build something representative. Pamputt (discusscontribs) 17:36, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Export to Pdf, LaTeX, Epub, OdtEdit


I propose to enable file export for Wikiversity to the formats Pdf, LaTeX, Epub, Odt. Technically I propose to use my open source project hosted on wmflabs You can just copy and paste an Url from Wikiversity and click start.

You can also add a link to it in the left sidebar, by copying the commons.js from my user namespace to your user namespace.

Of course my ultimate goal is to modify MediaWiki:Common.js to make that link in the sidebar appear for all users. I am happy to hear your opinion about that. Furthermore I will also have to see if the servers can stand the load if that actually happens.

--Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 07:35, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Wow! I'll try it. Boris Tsirelson (discusscontribs) 08:42, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Can you review this and let us know if it is something we should add for everyone? -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 14:16, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

I tried the existing "Download as PDF" or "Create a book" and the results were quite disappointing. I haven't tried this yet, but if it works better than the existing tools I support it. --mikeu talk 16:52, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
I installed mediawiki2latex on my Debian 9 (without any problems) and did
I/O detail
mediawiki2latex -c M2L-spaces -p A4 -o M2L-spaces/mytry2.pdf -u
mediawiki2latex (1575744739.193710114s): processing started
mediawiki2latex (1575744742.208098378s): downloading article and contributor information
warning: ""<!DOCTYPE html>\n<html lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">\n<m..."" (line 1, column 1) HTML DOCTYPE declaration ignored
warning: ""<mediawiki xmlns=\""" (line 5, column 70) no opening tag found for </base>
warning: ""<!DOCTYPE html>\n<html class=\"client-nojs\" lan..."" (line 1, column 1) HTML DOCTYPE declaration ignored
warning: ""<mediawiki xmlns=\""" (line 5, column 61) no opening tag found for </base>
mediawiki2latex (1575744747.931374163s): parsing article text
mediawiki2latex (1575744747.931420509s): number of bytes to be parsed: 186906
mediawiki2latex (1575744747.950343111s): forking threads to download of images and contributor information on them
mediawiki2latex (1575744747.950386003s): number of images going to be downloaded: 11
mediawiki2latex (1575744750.763529471s): precompiling table columns
mediawiki2latex (1575744750.81762087s): number of columns to be compiled: 1
mediawiki2latex (1575744750.817703065s): precompiling column number 1
mediawiki2latex (1575744753.41844276s): generating LaTeX document
mediawiki2latex (1575744753.419271494s): number of bytes to be parsed: 186906
mediawiki2latex (1575744753.420796959s): joining threads to download the images and contributor information on them
mediawiki2latex (1575744753.420833862s): number of images to be processed: 11
mediawiki2latex (1575744775.865091424s): preparing for PDF generation
mediawiki2latex (1575744790.821428251s): preparing images for LaTeX document
mediawiki2latex (1575744794.441326673s): generating PDF file. LaTeX run 1 of 4
mediawiki2latex (1575744798.621484458s): generating PDF file. LaTeX run 2 of 4
mediawiki2latex (1575744803.345461606s): generating PDF file. LaTeX run 3 of 4
mediawiki2latex (1575744807.908469763s): generating PDF file. LaTeX run 4 of 4
mediawiki2latex (1575744812.486176514s): finished
Now I see a PDF file, containing 14 pages, while it should contain much more.
Images are included (within this 14-pages part), but the table is utterly distorted.
And I see some new tex files, but no one of them contains the text of the article. Boris Tsirelson (discusscontribs) 19:29, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi I just tried the same file with the server and got 45 pages. I did some work since the last release of debian. The resulting file is here. You may reproduce the result locally by using the package from debian testing or if you don't want to change you current system followi the installation instructions at, should be done in 5 minutes. Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 20:07, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
I see, thank you. Anyway, I admire your project. Тhe task is extremely difficult, and I do not expect to get a really fine result without tweaking latex files, the more so that my article contains a lot of rather atypical cases. Boris Tsirelson (discusscontribs) 20:21, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
I have multiple initial thoughts, but want to take a look before I elaborate. First though, what exactly would be included in the project js? What specific javascript gadget is proposed? --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 19:38, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi, the js is just a link to the web form on the web server with the field url filled in. Its just one line of js. Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 19:49, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
I'll investigate (I have some potential concerns) the actual software, but can you post what the code would be? --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 23:43, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
here is the code mw.util.addPortletLink ('p-tb', ''+'fill/'+encodeURIComponent(''+wgArticlePath.replace('$1', encodeURIComponent(wgPageName))), 'Multi Format Export'); --Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 08:00, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
C.f. mw:Wikimedia Labs/Agreement to disclosure of personally identifiable information - I'm not sure just how much info tool maintainers get, but it expressly is not bound by the normal WMF privacy policy. Strongly oppose common.js / gadget on by default, not sure yet otherwise. --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 23:51, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
The web page does not know which users sends the requests, it does not use any cookies, furthermore all data is delete after 6 hours by a cron job, so I think I did my best to protect personal data. If you are concerned about java script, we could still do a pull request on the mediawiki software itself to reach the same effect, it will just require some more time --Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 08:00, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I just tried this out on SkyCam. Most of the generated doc looks ok but the images are sideways with captions that are not oriented horizontally to the main text and there is excessive whitespace. I also noted problems with ordered (numbered) lists at Scientific computing. I really like the idea of this project and I also appreciate the difficulties in implementing it, but it doesn't look ready as a replacement for the (rather poor quality) existing generate features. Please ping me if you'd like me to beta test an update. I highly encourage development of a viable alternative to what we have now. --mikeu talk 04:19, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I will not be able to solve this special case before Christmas. The problem are galleries, which a not done by mediawiki standard "gallery" tag but with custom gallery templates. Those templates put two tables in one cell of an outer table. This requires to scale the inner tables to fit into the single cell of the outer table. This is not yet implemented. Things will work if each inner table is in a separate cell in the outer table with the current implementation. --Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 08:36, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
@Mu301: I solved the nested lists issue with Scientific computing I also improved the situation with SkyCam although there is still work to be done in this issue. I uploaded to git and deployed on the servers, so you can try again now. Thanks a lot for pointing out the issues so far, that greatly helps to improve the program. Looking forward to your next bug report. --Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 10:56, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
@Mu301: I also deployed a fix for the remaining issue in SkyCam on the server. The simple thing, I did was to scale table which reside in the same cell of and outer table by a factor of 0.5. --Dirk Hünniger (discusscontribs) 13:53, 8 December 2019 (UTC)