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Probationary custodians againEdit

We have three open probationary custodian situations:

Ruy PugilesiEdit


  • Probationary period started 4 September 2013
  • Active. edits Live, 3,590, Deleted 132.
  • Sysop log shows current activity.
  • Mentor is you.

Dave BraunschweigEdit

  • Probationary period started 4 September 2013.
  • Active. edits Live, 13,405, Deleted 567.
  • Sysop log shows current activity.

In addition we have an open candidacy with no volunteer mentor, being one of our most active users:


  • Active. edits Live, 14,601, Deleted 14.


All three present probationary custodians are ready for some kind of action, one way or another, the normal probationary period being long completed. I.e.,

  • Ruy Pugliesi is inactive, and never was seriously active. His mentor can be asked if he wants to make a recommendation. If not, Ruy may be asked if he wants to continue with a new mentor. If there is a recommendation for promotion, then the permanent process may be opened up, but at this point, the conclusion would be obvious.
  • Sidelight12 and Dave Braunschweig are ready for mentor recommendation and probably consideration for permanent. Both have been active and have a demonstrated commitment to helping Wikiversity. I have some concerns, but these can be addressed.
  • If at least one new permanent custodian is created, then we have a possible mentor for the remaining candidate. Thanks for considering this. --Abd (discusscontribs) 18:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
  • James? Do you need assistance clerking those pages? Do you have recommendations as mentor? --Abd (discusscontribs) 01:42, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
    • Thanks very much, Abd - agree with all these and will get them moving hopefully in next few days. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 06:21, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
      • Any update on this? I wondered it myself too you know. :)
      • In case you have problems keeping up with the crat stuff, I could assist on the rename request page as I did before. Trijnstel (discusscontribs) 12:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Dispute resolutionEdit

Hi. Can you nip the discussion on my talkpage in the bud. I tried to do what is right, from a user's inappropriate actions. Abd said he will not get involved in Wikiversity policies, in the past. He is controlling, and expects custodians to be his puppets. I wanted dispute resolution, and I will not resign. I believe I am doing a good job as a custodian. I have good reason for my actions, and I think he is trying to repress me. If I went about a situation wrong, I had the right intent, and can be corrected without that abuse.

Even though I try to make my actions translucent, user:abd is trying to pry and control. He sends me an email allegedly intended for someone else. Then he sends another email saying that is a mistake, and gives the impression he wants dispute resolution, then he does the opposite. Thank you for your time. - Sidelight12 Talk 14:27, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I was hoping to avoid a broad confrontation on this. Your review of your mentored custodian's actions is appropriate and desired (and already requested above). I have suggested two alternative paths. If he resigns, he could still maintain his candidacy, as mine was maintained -- even against my opinion! -- when I was first desysopped. He has enough action history to assess his performance. Or he could agree to Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship/Standard stop agreement which allows nuanced restraint by any custodian. There are many problems, and the core problem has been a rejection of review of his actions by those with more wiki experience and understanding. That's not just me.
If needed, I'll go to Wikiversity:Custodian feedback. He's defiant, so, in the absence of action by you and in the absence of something like the stop agreement -- I'll wait a while -- I'll do it. If you need a list of problems, I will create it in my user space (where it could be deleted at my request). But the latest incident alone is adequate to make the point. See his talk page.[1]
"... I try to make my actions translucent....* My suggestion of his resignation came today, after he revision-deleted his own comments on the Talk page of the user he blocked. He also did a number of other revision deletions today, and others on the 25th that were unnecessary -- and useless, since the comments remained. The deletion log, and on his Talk page today, he said he intended to delete that discussion of his actions from his user talk page.[2] The user has shown a persistent lack of understanding of the role of custodians, and has been unwilling to learn.
I did accidentally send him an email that was intended for another, then an apology, when I discovered the error. That email contains private information. --Abd (discusscontribs) 15:27, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Probationary custodianship againEdit

Hi, James! Glad to see you active. We've been having fun. I'm pinging you again about probationary custodianship, there are two current probationary custodians, long past the standard period. Do you need any support in handling this? If it is difficult for you, for whatever reason, to make a recommendation, nevertheless the actual decision on "permanent" is up to the community. It's just that established process requires that you list the requests, it does not actually require recommendations, though you are certainly free and encouraged to make them.

So by when will you list the requests, or at least consent to them being listed on your behalf? Thanks for everything you have done for Wikiversity. --Abd (discusscontribs) 17:25, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

James, it's been two weeks with no response. Absent your objection, I will organize a vote on permanent custodianship for Dave Braunschweig. Once again, thanks for all you have done and continue to do for Wikiversity, it's greatly appreciated. --Abd (discusscontribs) 13:56, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Abd. Please feel free to take action and nominate Dave Braunschweig - it has been far too long and I am remiss as mentor for not yet actioning. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 23:34, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
  •  Y Done. Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship/Dave Braunschweig. Thanks for your response. For the future, I may make a template similar to what I've just done, to make it easier to review a candidate's custodianship stats. I did not state that you were recommending, because, in fact, you did not. Rather, you permitted, which may be just right. This may then allow you to later review the comments, neutrally, and action the result. I'll ping you after a decent delay if no other 'crat has acted. In any case, let me know if there is any problem. --Abd (discusscontribs) 15:59, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Custodianship consensus apparentEdit

James, it has been ten days since the voting opened on Dave's permanent custodianship. The policy allows closure in a week. Consensus is apparent. Given the high consensus, may I suggest that you implement this? --Abd (discusscontribs) 13:33, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Please restrain your mentee Sidelight or withdraw your mentorshipEdit

James, the situation with Sidelight is becoming a crisis. He is stirring up hornet's nests, libelling a user, violating what we should have as Child protection policy (if we followed what Wikipedia does, he'd have been blocked already, unless he stopped upon warning), and was never responsive to criticism as a probationary custodian.



He canvassed Ottava Rima to participate on RCA, and attempted to bring in one or two stewards. The real issue is "child protection" which is sometimes one of the most volatile and dangerous topics possible. I address this on Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship/Dave Braunschweig/Privacy issue, separately, because it may be appropriate to revision delete the response (along with Sidelight12's allegations). If this situation continues, I expect I may be going to meta myself.


  • Restrain your mentee, or
  • Withdraw your mentorship.

It is clear that he would not be approved for permanent custodianship, so there is no point in creating a vote, unless you were to disagree with me and recommend him. If you withdraw your mentorship, he has 48 hours to find a new mentor, by our policy. While you could go to meta immediately and request removal of tools, he has not been abusing the tools lately, so there is no emergency on that account, though his behavior has become disruptively erratic. At the end of the 48 hours, if there is no mentor, and if he has not resigned the tools, any user here could point stewards to our policy and his custodian rights would be removed.

I would rather not file a Community Review over this, if it can be avoided. It could be stirring a hornet's nest, and intricately intertwined with privacy issues. --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:06, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Dear JTneill, I'm sorry about this situation, but I have nothing to apologize for of my actions. First of all, I haven't canvassed, because I informed all parties of who were mentioned, and that included people who would probably side with abd. Impartial stewards who are not busy need to comment on this, so what's the problem with telling stewards I mentioned their comments? There are not enough stewards here. Now if I broke a rule about Child protection policy, there are three others even more guilty of it who were directly involved with in this issue. Now Abd, says he wants information redacted, but when I wanted information redacted from my userpage I get attacked for it. Also, I haven't libeled anyone, take a look at the user's contribution history [3]. Please don't make your decision based on abd's claims. If you want to withdraw my mentorship, that's fine by me, but I propose don't do it without also taking action against abd, and without taking a look at Dave's acts. This is not abd's choice, and how he wants to act like he dictates the rules is irrelevant. Abd has caused disruption on numerous occasions. It is a false claim by abd, of whether or not I would be approved for custodianship. Thank you for your time, and for your mentorship. - Sidelight12 Talk 03:44, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Sidelight was just warned on meta for what he did here, and his complaint there, which did libel a user, was revision-deleted.[4]
Above, he links to the old contributions of the user he libelled, and claims that the three of us (Dave, myself, and the other user) are guilty of violating child protection policy, while not denying the obvious: he is violating global policy or practice on the issue. And that's what happens with this topic: people believe they are justified in violating the policy because of the seriousness of the offense they are alleging.
These are serious charges, for which he has no evidence; further, Wikipedia, which has the most developed policy on this, prohibits making these charges on-wiki, and users who make them are warned and blocked. Users on Wikipedia are told to email ArbCom with complaints. Globally, stewards require email as well, Sidelight was told to email stewards-l if he has evidence.
(I emailed them to notify them of Sidelight's violations, per policy, and they acted with revision deletion and warning as linked above.) Yes, he notified everyone he "mentioned," which included inactive users whose only notability was ancient history, old conflicts with me, and he knew that. Thus he incited a certain user who was properly banned from interaction with me, to proceed to interact on the RCA ban request. That user has, in fact, been blocked elsewhere for accusing others of violating child protection policy.
Please withdraw mentorship.
James, as you know, there were many complaints about me when you were my mentor. At any time you could have withdrawn your mentorship, but you neither confirmed the complaints, warning me, or withdrawing, nor did you defend me or my actions against assault. Later, in one case, (where you were not my mentor), you reviewed the action that led to my first desysopping, and confirmed that it was within custodial discretion. For daring that, a Community Review was started, attempting to remove your administrative rights.
Please act on (or reject) this request promptly; if you cannot find the time to supervise a mentee, please withdraw without prejudice, you need not blame Sidelight, but it is dangerous to have probationary custodians without supervision, and I intend to edit the custodian policy pages to cover this contingency. I set up Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship/Standard stop agreement to provide some protection, but that has not been used. I had agreed to it, but it was ignored and much more disruptive process was used to handle my alleged transgressions.
By the way, I attempted to email you on this. You have an email account with a provider that rejects WMF mail showing my major email service provider. it bounced, and my provider (yahoo) classifies such bounces as spam. I resent the mail to you yesterday, I don't know if you received it yet. I think we need a private custodians mailing list, with only custodians subscribed, to handle requests which should be confidential. I have handled issues like this in the past with email to a known active custodian.
One of Sidelights complaints about me is in the RCA filing:
Conducted in sneaky behavior, in part by using email for resolution, ...
Sidelight is referring to my use of email to handle a possible privacy policy violation.
Sidelight has been mostly inactive as a custodian, so there will be little or no loss if his probationary custodianship is revoked. --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:17, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Wait a minute. It's ok for abd to make accusations? I provided links for my claims. This is nothing but Wikilawyering from abd, and trying to downplay and ignore the diffs I have shown. It's a conflict of interest for him to try to get involved in the custodial process. I haven't broken any child protection policy. This isn't an old issue, I dealt with this after coming back to Wikiversity after frustration from his mess. I plan to be more active, I was in fact active before abd's harassments. This is a current issue, from an ongoing systematic disruption. I didn't conduct a privacy violation as someone falsely accused me of. I'm not at fault if someone sends an email to the wrong user, plus I was referring to the email he sent meant for me. He himself mentioned outloud he sent it, so repeating what he already confirmed is not ok now? Abd tries to gain sympathy for his own mistakes, by blaming me for it? At Meta, someone mentioned the situation to me, but no one warned me. Abd conveniently ignores all the diffs, and points I make, then tries to override it with his false logic. Jtneill, I'm sorry this happened on your userpage, but I have to respond to this properly. Abd has no business interfering with custodial processes, where he thinks he has more say than everyone else. I believe I did nothing wrong. I also understand the tools, so Jtneill doesn't have blame here either. Thank you for your time, anyways. - Sidelight12 Talk 22:31, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Sidelight again violating policyEdit

James, Sidelight has again demonstrated that his possession of the tools is dangerous. You have neither confirmed his actions, defending him, nor have you requested him to change his behavior, nor have you withdrawn mentorship. I have now filed Wikiversity:Custodian_feedback#Sidelight12 because of his action today, and his pugnacious response. If you are unable to supervise your mentee, please state you are withdrawing mentorship. That would give him 48 hours to find another mentor. It might simplify the situation. However, if this does not resolve, the next step is Community Review. Thanks. --Abd (discusscontribs) 23:58, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

I did nothing wrong here. I blocked someone's email account, not their ability to contribute here. My actions were done for the safety of Wikiversity. Let me get something straight, Abd jeopardized your administrator-ship, when you mentored him? You gave him another chance, then he made a threat towards your administrative-ship last month? I stand by my actions, and I know how to use the tools. JTneill has no blame here, and neither do I. - Sidelight12 Talk 03:07, 14 October 2014 (UTC)


Hello Jtneill,

please review my statement at Wikiversity:Notices for custodians#User:Sidelight12 at your earlier convenience, as you are the only active bureaucrat. Thank you for your time, Snowolf How can I help? 17:37, 16 October 2014 (UTC)  Y Done -- Jtneill - Talk - c 13:30, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

PDF downloadEdit

Dear Jtneill

The pdf download prepares pdf of the following page with wrong format and missing content.

I metioned that before. You have said that it works. I tested again it does not work.

There was no problem before, while we get the text in one column. Now the text compiled in two columns and the above mentioned problems exists.

Can you help me? I prepared the pages and the course for my classes and now I can not use it properly.


Özgür Ertunç Ertunc (discusscontribs) 07:39, 4 November 2014 (UTC)


Please see my comments on the Request custodian action‎ board. Jameskeptic (discusscontribs) 20:52, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

There is nothing here worth your time, James. Dave responded, and so did I.[5] This is utterly out of place, Jameskeptic is an SPA that only exists globally to attack one of our users, who has done nothing improper here. --Abd (discusscontribs) 22:47, 13 December 2014 (UTC)


--Jthomas15 (discusscontribs) 02:57, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Probationary custodian readyEdit

Guy vandegrift has a mentor, please implement. Thanks! --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:29, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, James. --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:16, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Action on probationary custodianshipEdit

Please implement Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship/Abd 4. Thanks. --Abd (discusscontribs) 11:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

As mentor let me also ask that custodian tools be activated for Abd to begin a probationary custodianship at your discretion. --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 21:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Given that it's his 4th go, I'd like to see 4 mentors. Seriously JT, please let's not go there again without at least trying to amend the (never-approved) policy to include lessons learned. I'm quite sure Mike and Seb will agree on this. --SB_Johnny talk 23:32, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Bureaucrats serve the community, which has expressed consensus in policy. Sebmol is no longer a 'crat, SB Johnny is out-of-touch, not engaged in building this community, other than drive-by actions, for more than five years. Mike is very inactive. SBJ says "never-approved." That was his position when he deprecated the policy to "proposed",[6] while it had complete consensus when tagged policy,[7] which has been used for at least nine years or so, routinely, since proposed by Sebmol.[8] We have a policy, then, in fact.
There is no showing of harm, no risk from my having tools. SB Johnny suggests 4 mentors. I have agreed to the Standard stop agreement which allows any custodian to stop me dead in my tracks. That's like making every custodian my mentor, more than four. I work closely with the active custodians. Only SBJ pops out of the past, to oppose based on what happened four years ago, instead of letting active Wikiversitans run Wikiversity.
By all means, policy can be improved. "Lessons learned." What lessons, learned when? I haven't asked for tools for four years, nobody worked on fixing the policy. It's your choice, James. You are not a robot, no matter what policy says. Policy is only important as it represents community consensus, established practice. We could also ask Mike. Because it might make a difference, I'm going to undo that deprecation of our policy, we will see what happens. SBJ has written that he supports the closure of Wikiversity. Will those who actually care about Wikiversity prevail? I suppose it may be time we find out. --Abd (discusscontribs) 00:17, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
I only "pop out of the past" when things spin out of reason, control, and/or logic. That policy shouldn't be policy, and Abd is the classic case of why it needs to be made more sensible. (Abd, your reaction to my comments confirms (to me) that you're just as dangerous to community health as you ever were.) --SB_Johnny talk 00:40, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Exactly. SB Johnny is the only one who can save Wikiversity from itself (or from me). That's my point. --Abd (discusscontribs) 05:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
  • I have been reviewing the history of policy development on Wikiversity, and of probationary custodianship. The full study is currently at User:Abd/Policy development. I intend to summarize that.
  • In particular, there is a review there of all probationary custodians. The claim that there is a problem with the custodianship policy has no foundation in fact, beyond some features that are missing and easily supplied, such as using the Standard stop agreement, which is broader than what SB Johnny often did: require a mentee to agree to desysop at mentor discretion. There have been 39 probationary custodians (not counting the present one). Of these, 33 were confirmed as permanent. Of the 6 who were not, it could be argued that two were disruptive, and only one -- not me -- wheel-warred, which would be truly serious disruption.
  • The biggest problem since 2012 has been a dearth of candidates, exacerbated by bureaucrat or mentor inaction. In 2014, we were down only one active custodian, so there was nobody to mentor others.
  • Policy suggests fast action on a mentor agreement, and this was done from 2006 on, even if, sometimes, there was opposition. Always, it was assumed that a mentor could handle problems if they arose. This only broke down when mentors were absent, and failed to either rein their mentee in, or to support the mentee against unwarranted attack.
  • SB Johnny has suggested a special user group, and that is worth looking at, but, meanwhile, we can accomplish very similar results with documented agreements, allowing any permanent custodian to stop a probationer, with prompt steward deysop if the probationer doesn't stop.
  • Please follow the clear policy and tradition, and implement my probationary custodianship. I am committed to it being uneventful, just ordinary uncontroversial actions. We now have reliable attention to the wiki, something that was not available too many times when I was a probationer four years ago. I won't need to take "emergency actions." --Abd (discusscontribs) 19:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

If it makes any differenceEdit

If we get the new user group currently under vote as started by SB Johnny at Wikiversity:Colloquium#Community support/vote to create the "assistant" usergroup, I agree with this edit that, if I am made and still am a probationary custodian, not permanent, I will promptly assign myself the Assistant user group, and go to meta and resign as a Custodian. --Abd (discusscontribs) 13:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

fix links?Edit

Saw this: [9]. From my experience, the space between the asterisk and the text or link makes no difference in display or link function. Am I missing something? --Abd (discusscontribs) 13:19, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, you're right, that edit didn't work. I think the next edit made the links active [10]. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 23:02, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
For me, the links worked from the beginning, and were active in all versions. I checked them many times and just checked them again, from [11], just before your edit. They are links within the same subspace as Abd 4, using the .. pseudonym. I do notice an odd behavior. The links display as the full pagename, correctly parsed. When I hover the cursor over the links, however, my browser, currently Chrome, displays the pseudonym as the URL to use, not the full URL, but then, within about a second, shows the correct full URL. I thought maybe if I quickly click on it, it might produce an error, but, no, it works. --Abd (discusscontribs) 12:56, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Motivation and emotionEdit

hi jtneill, I was a bit confused and created a personal account (inderelli) rather than an student id account (u943390) and now I have two accounts and only need one! oops. Anyway, there is only one of me and I have registered for a book topic, I am already really interested in it! Cheers Tara U943390 (discusscontribs) 05:05, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

an open probationary custodianship with you as mentorEdit

Wikiversity:Candidates_for_Custodianship/Leutha. This was apparently accidentally archived by Draicone in September 2011.[12]. I've re-listed it.

In October, 2011, you commented to Leutha that you were not ready to approve.[13] At that point, you were aware of the archiving, and so was Leutha. My impression has been that probationary custodianship candidacy pages are left open and listed until resolved, which was supposed to be fairly quickly in the original concept, and that this slipped through the cracks shows why that is needed. There is left no clear sign that the probationer is not permanent, and seeing Leutha in the Staff list over the last couple of years, I simply assumed he was permanent, since he wasn't listed on the Candidates for Custodianship page.

This is a loose end. I have seen no problematic use of tools from Leutha, though a little sign that his understanding of the Wikiversity community is not high. If mentorship is to be continued, I'd think he should obtain a more active and attentive mentor, which I'm sure could be implemented on request. What do you think? --Abd (discusscontribs) 01:50, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Request for guidanceEdit

Hi, I would like some guidance for dealing with Abd who I am finding disruptive. I see that he is imposing his own ideas of organisation on everything and suggests that he is expressing "the will of the community". I feel this will lead to a very pyrimidical way of organising open educational resources which means that new initiatives involving partners with clear organisational goals will become jeopardised.

I have worked using Wikiversity with a number of organisations (SPIR608 Political Simulations and Gaming, Portal:Simulation and Gaming Archive) and used it for a number of presentations ([[14]], User:Leutha/E4D presentation April 2015/Intro). Previously I have felt sufficiently confident that this would work OK even in a live situation. In fact I have felt that it is important to help promote Wikimedia, particularly amongst academic circles, and I feel that it is important for us to develop partnerships with a range of different organisations. One such organisation is SUSTAINed who wish to develop their handbook with us. However Abd has moved their page without proper consultation. I have opned up a discussion with a couple of peopel from SUSTAINed to clarify copyright issues, but I am finding Abd' contribution unhelpful. He seems unhesitant in suggesting his views are those of the whole community and tends to lead the discussion off into very wide ranging discussions which would, I feel be better located somewhere else so that those people with a particular interest in them can develop them with him there.

Dave Braunschweig has already experienced problems with Abd to the point of being subject to personal attack (see Wikiversity:Colloquium#Canvassing_or_notification_of_the_knowledgeable_of_discussions_of_interest.3F. I am concerned that an aspect of Abd's behaviour is that he can be provocative, and then when people respond in a reasonable manner, he then dramatises matters in the way Dave describes. I would be grateful for any advice you have in this matter.Leutha (discusscontribs) 09:33, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Jtneill, as you know, Leutha is your mentee. I have seen no problematic use of tools, though I have not looked deeply. However, I have seen some very odd behavior. I raised the copyright issue and resolved it. Leutha made a positive suggestion which I underscored that would nail it. However, he has become hostile and oppositional. I used "we" once to describe what, in fact, has been going on, on Wikiversity, for some years, with wide approval and usage and extremely low conflict. Leutha has now created conflict, and refused to explain, and complains about explanations in the other direction. There is no problem with the SUSTAINed community, who have begun what could be quite an exciting project. Leutha seems to have a problem.
As a probationary custodian, it is extremely important that he be able to discuss issues when they come up. Dave, however, considered discussion to be "badgering." We either let this go, or we will examine it.
I urge you, James, to review the recent activity of your mentee and advise him. I do not expect you to intervene in unripe conflict. That can require research and a lot of time. Thanks. --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:50, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
This disruption is impacting users trying to prepare Wikiversity for their students. See [15]. I would warn, but I'm already 'involved'. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 11:41, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Dave filed a WV:RCA report over a "conflict" that I was unaware of, opposition to two edits that appeared last night, and the report was filed before I could even see them and handle the problem (which I have now done with both issues). Dave has become reactive, and is obviously looking for "something wrong with Abd." As always, I will welcome your advice. However, Dave has gone off the rails. Always, previously, he was amenable to advice, so I assume you could also advise him. Thanks. --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:50, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Developing PartnershipsEdit

On a more positive note I feel that it would be useful to work on a clearer way we can relate to educational establishments and groups like SUSTAINed. On Wikipedia I had some experience working on the Education Program while employed by Wikimedia UK. Part of the problem experienced there was ensuring that new groups acted in a way compatible with the platform and were not the subject of disruption. I feel the future of Wikiversity lies in developing a range of relationships including formal partnering, but I think we have some way to go before that can be effectively achieved. I would welcome your comments on this.Leutha (discusscontribs) 09:33, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Leutha is correct to note the possible importance of collaboration with SUSTAINed. However, this is actually an ordinary learning project, very new, created by some users without a lot of Wikiversity experience. They need assistance, community support, and I've been providing that. "Formal partnering" can create some issues, if it creates page ownership without explicit attribution.
Out of a developed understanding of conflict resolution on Wikiversity, and neutrality policy, my position has become that mainspace pages cannot be owned, unless very temporarily, with an under construction template (and it may be better to develop such pages in user space or as attributed subpages.)
The users did not seem to be aware of how to use subspace, and appeared to be contemplating development of all content, for what could become a deep Handbook, on the same page. I moved SUSTAINed Handbook to Sustainability/Handbook, which would have zero negative impact on the ability of the SUSTAINed people to work on the resource, and which could empower them. Leutha opposed that, and suggested a long and largely redundant name.[16] I explained, and Leutha has not responded further. Placing SUSTAINed, the name of an organization, in the title, would limit the resource. by title, to what that specific organization does. However, as Sustainability/Handbook, this is a general handbook for sustainability, which then can be developed by SUSTAINed -- and anyone else. If they want an exclusive space, they can say so and I'll create it. But I don't think they do. I think they want collaboration, and I find it exciting.
The users obviously accepted the move, because they did not object, and linked, on their web site, to the moved page. This gave me the opportunity, then, to resolve the copyright issue -- they had copied material from their web site without attribution -- by, first, attributing it myself,[17] and second, by noting the link as reflecting the permission of those who control the website content. Good enough for Wikiversity, if not for Commons (which might want OTRS confirmation). Leutha's suggestion, that the web site explicitly release their content under a free license, would fully resolve this, even Commons would accept it. --Abd (discusscontribs) 15:22, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

The situation is rapidly deteriorating. Please see Wikiversity:Request_custodian_action. Thanks Leutha (discusscontribs) 18:22, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

This Month in Education: August 2015Edit

James, we have a community subscription to this newsletter, at Wikiversity:Newsletters/This Month in Education. I created that to avoid unnecessary traffic on the Colloquium. Anyone may link to it on the Colloquium if they think content deserves special notice. (This was discussed a bit.)
So you may see the issues as they come in by watchlisting that page. The edit above caused an edit conflict for me, and creates user page traffic not related to the purpose of your talk page. (I.e., it lights up my watchlist, I get an email, etc.) It's up to you, obviously, but thought I'd point out the alternative. --Abd (discusscontribs) 15:28, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


While archiving some old discussions I just noticed that Leutha was still under Requests_and_Nominations_for_Probationary_Custodianship. As mentor, would you like to nominate for full? --mikeu talk 20:03, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

page blankingEdit

Was this a page move attempt or a fork? I restored the content. --mikeu talk 01:04, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Files Missing Source InformationEdit

The following files are used in Motivation and emotion, but are missing source information. How would you recommend that we proceed with these?

Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 03:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Dave. The uploaders have had sufficient opportunity to provide appropriate license information, so these images should be deleted. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 06:47, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Categories processingEdit

Hi !

I process categories. If the change I have made on your ones does not fit, don't hesitate to reverse my contribution.


--Thierry613 (discusscontribs) 11:20, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


Hi James. I'm new to the English Wikiversity, but I have a long history in the Wikimedia community. Today I decided to bring one of my off-site projects ( to the English Wikiversity. However, to make the project work here I need the withJS and withCSS parameters, which haven't been enabled here. For the good of the Wikidialectics project and Wikiversity in general, would you mind enabling them? Thanks! --Felipe (discusscontribs) 22:39, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi again James, request cancelled! I decided to keep Wikidialectics at because of several technical features that I can only implement on my own wiki. Enabling the withJS and withCSS parameters may still be beneficial to Wikiversity though. Cheers! --Felipe (discusscontribs) 12:34, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your messages, Filipe. Let me know if I do anything down the track. Sincerely, James -- Jtneill - Talk - c 23:18, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

thanks for the posterEdit

Used here: Leighblackall (discusscontribs) 06:27, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


Thanks for the tagEdit

Thank you! I didn't see where you had put the message until just now. A website I used to write for had the rule of having upper case letters for titles, so I apologize for the mix up. Will fix it now and not lose .5 marks haha.

Files Missing InformationEdit

Thanks for uploading files to Wikiversity. All files must have source and license information to stay at Wikiversity. The following files are missing {{Information}} and/or Wikiversity:License tags, and will be deleted if the missing information is not added. See Wikiversity:Uploading files for more information.

MaintenanceBot (discusscontribs) 19:32, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Survey research and design in psychologyEdit

I noticed that Survey research and design in psychology was based on <center> tags. But, interestingly, it didn't actually center the text. The <center> tag is deprecated in HTML 5, and all of the pages that use it are showing up on Special:LintErrors/obsolete-tag. I wrote some code to replace the <center> tag with current <div> formatting. Interestingly, the <div> is correctly centered on Survey research and design in psychology, but that may not be what you really wanted. There are a number of related pages that all have <center> tags that weren't really centered before. Take a look and let me know if you'd like me to automate some type of cleanup. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 03:09, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Dave Braunschweig - Thanks for letting me know. Wow, I didn't realise that <center> is done with in HTML5 - bummer - I reckon I've used it in a lot of places on WV :( - I've tidied up that specific page (I think <center> wasn't doing much on that page because the table was 100% wide) and will keep an eye out for fixing other pages. Thanks for working the MaintenanceBot to do this. Sincerely, James -- Jtneill - Talk - c 22:27, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
The {{Center}} template is updated to use HTML5. You can use that when you want to center. It's fine for most situations, but does fail if you try to put a wikitext table inside it. Since <center> doesn't work inside wikitext tables, I'll see if I can write some code to automate that cleanup. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 23:18, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Multiple linear regressionEdit

Hi Jtneill!

Your statistics resource Multiple linear regression appears to be well-developed and ready for general learners! Would you like to have it announced on our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 23:05, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

@Marshallsumter: Yes, that's fine, thanks for letting me know. You're doing a great job with the news feed! Sincerely, James -- Jtneill - Talk - c 00:07, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Creating Pages with External LinksEdit

We had a lot of issues with abuse from new users creating pages with external links. I set up a filter a while ago that prevents this abuse, but it's now catching a number of your students. There are two work-arounds. 1) Students can create pages without links, then add the links. 2) You or I (bureaucrats) can add the users to the confirmed user group. Confirmed users aren't new, and are therefore not restricted. Let me know if I can help. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 03:19, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

OK, cool, makes sense and explains why some students were getting capthas and some weren't in class. Option 1 is fine, no problem, but good to know that Option 2 is there. Appreciate it. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 13:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
The CAPTCHA is separate. That's built into Mediawiki now, based on the number of account creations or page creations from a given IP. There is a way we can do bulk account creations, if necessary. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 15:20, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

How may I change the e-mail address associated with my account?Edit

How may I change the e-mail address associated with my account Hint: answer at the latter(

Preferences -> Email options -- Jtneill - Talk - c 22:31, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Honours thesis in psychologyEdit

Hi Jtneill!

Your psychology resource Honours thesis in psychology appears to be well-developed and ready for learners! Would you like to have it announced in our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 16:31, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Spam WhitelistEdit

If you want to add something to the spam whitelist, be sure to escape the periods. Otherwise, periods match all characters. \\b is probably \bdx\.doi\.org\b . -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 23:13, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Survey research and design in psychologyEdit

Hi Jtneill!

Your course Survey research and design in psychology appears to be well-developed and ready for learners! Would you like to have it announced on our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 23:44, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Marshallsumter: that's fine - feel free. Tx for keeping the main page refreshed, much appreciated. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 06:54, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Lint ErrorsEdit

See Special:LintErrors/html5-misnesting. I've got almost all of the high priority lint errors cleaned up except for this page. There are multiple formatting issues in many of the This Month in Education and This Month in GLAM posts. The two HTML5 misnesting issues are from This Month in Education entries above.

Would you be willing to delete these entries from your talk page and refer to Outreach:Education/Newsletter/Archives and Outreach:GLAM/Newsletter/Archives for the newsletter archives? Please note that we can't archive these here. It just moves the problem. Wikimedia is holding up on switching Wikiversity over to the new HTML rendering engine until the high priority errors are fixed. Details are in the Wikiversity:Newsletters/Tech News.

Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 02:56, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Have deleted GLAM and Learning Quarterly newsletters 2014-2015 - feel free to delete the rest or will do them later. Will also need to unsubscribe later. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 01:26, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
Done. Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 02:15, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Dave. I have removed also the Learning Quarterlies and unsubscribed to all 3 newsletters - I had been meaning to get around to this for a while anyway, so thanks for the prompt  . -- Jtneill - Talk - c 11:17, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Psychology of natural scenesEdit

Hi Jtneill!

Your resource Psychology of natural scenes appears well-developed and ready for learners! Would you like to have it announced on our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 14:34, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

@Marshallsumter: That is very kind - the resources are still somewhat nascent, but I guess maybe you are right - there is enough there that it may be of interest to others, so yes, feel free to promote. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 06:29, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Files Missing InformationEdit

Thanks for uploading files to Wikiversity. All files must have source and license information to stay at Wikiversity. The following files are missing {{Information}} and/or Wikiversity:License tags, and will be deleted if the missing information is not added. See Wikiversity:Uploading files for more information.

MaintenanceBot (discusscontribs) 03:32, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


Hi Jtneill!

Your resource Reliability appears to be well-developed and ready for learners! Would you like to have it announced on our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 16:11, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


Thank you again for your help James. Having a lot of fun with creating a chapter. Kind regards. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by U3093304 (talkcontribs) 11:29, 6 October 2018‎)

Deletion QuestionEdit

Hello! Please take a look at this page. It popped up in the SWMT feed and seems to me to be off topic, and I tagged it as such, but the tag was removed. Thank you, Vermont (discusscontribs) 02:54, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Can you explain why you reverted?Edit

It would be nice to know why you considered the technical fix to be inappropriate, given that it was to resolve a fostered content issue, The page prior to the edit had a div inside a table (without a row or table data marker which is not necessarily good document structuring, and leads to "fostered" content issues.

In addition, use of align=center in that way is nominally deprecated and CSS should now be used in preference.

The relevant code should look something more like this:

{|style="background:transparent; margin:0 auto 0 auto; text-align:center;"
|This page <small>(and any subpages)</small> are part of [[Wikiversity]].<br />If you have ideas about how to improve the content, '''[[Project:Be bold|be bold]]''' and edit!


This page (and any subpages) are part of Wikiversity.
If you have ideas about how to improve the content, be bold and edit!

which is the same as the current template in display terms, but avoiding structuring issues.

ShakespeareFan00 (discusscontribs) 09:13, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your query, @ShakespeareFan00: - feel free to fix a different way, but I reverted because it wasn't working when transcluded - i.e., the table was left-aligned horizontally whilst the text was centered horizontally within the table. Ideally, I wanted the table centered horizontally on the page and text horizontally centered within the table. Please go ahead if you have a better way to achieve this. Sincerely, James. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 02:23, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Motivation and emotion/Book chapter structureEdit

See Special:AbuseLog. Is it possible for students to create the page first, blank if necessary, and then substitute the chapter structure? The external links in the template are triggering an abuse filter. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 23:45, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Community Insights SurveyEdit

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights SurveyEdit

RMaung (WMF) 19:13, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Request with marking page for translationEdit

Hi, I am trying to apply for a translation right and in the meantime need some help with marking these pages (1, 2) for translation. Can you please help mark them for the same? Thanks! --Psubhashish (discusscontribs) 06:10, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

@Psubhashish: Happy to help if I can - but can you explain in more detail what you would like me to do? Sincerely, James -- Jtneill - Talk - c 10:08, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
@Jtneill:, thanks for the quick response. I would need your help for marking the following pages for translation as I am still figuring out a way to apply for the translation adminship—

--Psubhashish (discusscontribs) 11:10, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

@Psubhashish: OK - I haven't done this before, so bear with me. Are you thinking something like this: mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example. That extension isn't currently installed on en.wv, so just gives e.g., User:Jtneill/sandbox. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 11:36, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
@Psubhashish: We don't have a translation right at Wikiversity, so there is nothing to apply for. There'a also no need to mark something for translation, as there is no one here who would do the translating. But we do have {{Translations}}. There is an example of its use at Hilbert Book Model Project. You are welcome to create the corresponding subpages and translate the content yourself if you wish, or begin by creating the template infrastructure and finding others interested in helping with the translation. There is also {{Translate}} to tag pages needing translation. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 13:12, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi @Dave Braunschweig:, thanks for clarifying. However, a smart tool like this makes it easier esp. when a version is updated in the source language (English in this case), the translated versions show notifications so that the translators can amend the changes. I did take a look at the example (thanks for sharing that as I was really looking for something like that to elaborate) you shared but I think having the extension makes it easier. My plan is to invite Wikimedians who speak different languages to translate the form and other such portions in their own languages so that the toolkit could be more useful. Will that be possible and if so where do we start? --Psubhashish (discusscontribs) 13:21, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
@Psubhashish: Adding an extension requires community support, followed by a Phabricator request. See Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/April_2019#VisualEditor Active Namespaces for an example. You are welcome to begin a discussion in the Wikiversity:Colloquium. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 13:36, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks @Dave Braunschweig: @Jtneill: Done. Now I need to request you and to share your inputs too as you both have been helping me here. :) --Psubhashish (discusscontribs) 13:52, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights SurveyEdit

RMaung (WMF) 17:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)