Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/September 2006

Please do not edit this page. Continue old discussion at Wikiversity:Colloquium.

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1 September, 2006

Online AP study

Quote: "If you are a homeschooled student or attend a school that doesn't offer AP, you can still participate. Each year hundreds of students participate through independent study. Some states even sponsor online AP courses." [1] <--we can give people college credit!--Rayc 05:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Infrastructure Project (New Page?)

Do others agree that such a project category should exist? Does such a category exist and I missed it? Does anyone agree that Wikiversity Infrastructure would be a good place for the School of Computer Science to devote its attention? Is it possible to create such an infrastructure in a contribution-based Wiki environment? (The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.68.88.137 (talk • contribs) 02:46, August 24, 2006.) I have moved this from Infrastructure Project.--digital_me 00:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Why did you move it? Was it originally linked to from computer science? I left a response for the originator but it will not do much good if they cannot find the file they created. Mirwin 05:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I moved that comment because it was on an orphaned mainspace page where it was unlikely to be seen by anyone.--digital_me 16:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Revertpage

I'd like to propose changing the edit summary on rollbacks from "Reverted edits by $2 (Talk); changed back to last version by $1" to "Reverted edits by $2 (Talk) to last version by $1". I think that the second one is better sounding, and it's more pithy and succint. Any major objections to this/alternate suggestions? --digital_me 00:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yep, the second one sounds better to me. Cormaggio 07:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

"more pithy" <-- Pithy comments are often short, direct, and memorable. However, what we need is informative. Suggestion:
(Reverted edits by $2 (Talk); changed back to last version by $1 using Rollback)

What was decided on courses and research?

I see this place actually got created. I'm surprised- I thought that the board had been aiming to kill it. Can I ask what decisions were made over divisive issues? Particularly primary research and courses? Wether I choose to participate or not will be highly influenced by the final decision on the second.

-- Gabe Sechan 01:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it is "if in the 6 months it can be done, then we will allow it, otherwise, no" That is why there is a bit of a rush and a mess everywhere.--Rayc 05:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

As near as I can tell the term "course" is discouraged because it is tied up with giving official credit for formal chunks of work measured in some way ..... which we are not currently set up to do. Instead we are trying to evolve some methods of using the wiki to allow people to exchange information. We have been given six months by the board to layout how Wikiversity would manage primary research as a community after which the Special Projects committee will review and evaluate the project's progress. It is not clear to me what happens should the committee decide we flunk their evaluation regarding research nor have any evaluation criteria been provided to the community at large. The approved proposal is accessible by link from the main page. It has not changed much at all from what was voted on eight months ago other than the restrictions regarding "courses" and research. Most of the "divisive" issues have been worked around and left to the arriving community to sort out how to handle them effectively. Mirwin 05:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Gabe. I'd just like to clarify on Rayc's comment above, which is more like "if, by the six month stage we have outlined sufficient guidelines and a realistic scope for research across all language projects, then Wikiversity will move out of its beta stage". It's true, as Mirwin says, that there are no criteria for setting this out - I suppose the word "realistic" is the best I can do for now. You can see ongoing work on this at Wikiversity:Research and related links. But, as for courses, there's nothing in the approved proposal that prevents someone from developing a course. Even though the proposal does recommend developing courses/activities/projects suitable to the wiki format (ie collaborative learning etc.), it is also deliberately open to most any pedagogy that might work. We will have to experiment with what works and build on what we learn in the process of doing that - that's the essence of Wikiversity for me. Cormaggio 07:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I have been working on an essay about the issue of Wikiversity courses, see: Learning the wiki way. --JWSchmidt 13:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

What about reading course? -- A group of people, none of which knows the subject well, can together read a text, and use Wikiversity as the forum.Hillgentleman 21:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)-

Excellent idea! I had a required course titled "Great Books" which was such a class at college. We read the Illiad, the sequel, and a couple of other "greats". Grading seemed be by how closely comments aligned with the Professor's opinion. Such a "course" would be a lot more fun as a hobby with no pressure to memorize the Prof's wording or opinions for tests. It would also be of great service to the Wikibooks project if such a group organized around reading and commenting on one of their books .... say the wiki junior "Solar System" book which is nearing publication. Likewise a couple of geographically separated AP (advanced placement?) groups could use a local forum to work through an agreed upon text or curriculum or specific topic at Wikibooks. Perhaps a basic procedure or template could be devised and linked to from the main page or the "How to use Wikiversity" page accessible from the main page. Mirwin 10:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Launch of the school of marine sciences

Its still only really in the basic stages, but I've created a school of marine sciences, and under it the departments of marine biology, marine chemistry and marine physics. I hope I haven't been too presumptuous in the 'philosophy' section, but it puts a marker down for those who want to participate in the school and constituent departments that we can debate from and take the departments and school from there. I've been busy typing some stuff that I will add to the discussion pages of the school and departments re:where from here when there are a few active participants.

A few points I'd like to make also regarding some matters of debate earlier on, I agree that those who wish to participate in the running of a department or school should simply add themselves to a list of contributors and there should be no formal officials or titles e.g. dean or professor. Perhaps as this (hopefully) develops, the students and contributors could elect boards to oversee (in terms of regulate rather than direct) departments and schools, but that's a matter for the future. Also with regard to putting qualifications on the user pages, I cautiously agree, simply to gain credibility for the wikiversity in its fledgling stage. However, surely the whole point of the wikiversity is to encourage autodidacts who have a wide range of learning needs and wants (how much want to learn, in what areas, in what ways) and may not have formal qualifications.

This is about more than ticking boxes (which many academic qualifications are) and as wikiversity develops we could well see masses of people incredibly knowledgeable about areas previously confined to the walls of academia, who can make incredible contributions to developing learning resources, courses and even original research in wikiversity - when that time comes (and I'm not ignoring the fact that there are large amounts of autodidacts out there already who are and will make huge contributions) posting academic achievements and qualifications won't just be unnecessary but irrelevant. Saying that, in order to get to that point I think credibility needs to be built and brief notes on userpages on the credentials of the user (not necessarily academic or career related) might just help with that.

Apologies if I go on a bit or repeat previous points. I can be a bit long-winded sometimes...

Jimbobalina2005 1 September 2006

Thanks for letting us know - and all the best with developing this learning community. I, too, hope that it becomes a centre of academic excellence (without, necessarily, the traditional trappings), and would encourage you to start developing seeds of content (perhaps simply questions), so that, when people start coming, they will be able to easily find a place they can add their own material, photographs, (research) questions, learner needs etc.. Good luck! Cormaggio 09:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Documentary Hypothesis

Hi, Wikiversity,

I'm not an active contributor on this project. I spend my time over at Wikisource, so please excuse me if this question is in the wrong place. Wikisource currently has a collection of texts call the Documentary Hypothesis (the pages I'm talking about can be found here). The problem is, these don't fit under the WS inclusion guidelines (they aren't exactly a source text) and will likely be deleted soon. However, the material on it might be useful for a place like WV. Again, I don't know if it fits with the vision here, but someone more knowledgable might want to give the page a look and see if it could be used somehow with this project. It would be a shame to lose such material because it simply doesn't fit our inclusion criteria, so I'm throwing this up to the community here. Thanks for your time.—Zhaladshar> ^(Talk)> 01:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

We have a School:Theology that might take them, but shouldn't they either fall under wikisource or wikibooks inclusion criteria?--Rayc 04:10, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I've had a look, and I'm certainly not "knowledgeable" on the subject, but I can see the dilemma. They seem to be against Wikisource policies as they are not strictly a source text, but essentially a collection of quotes from specific source texts. And they are not suitable for Wikibooks, as they do not seem to be in a textbook format as they are. I'd welcome them to Wikiversity if they can be put to use, ie not simply dumped somewhere, but clearly outlined what kinds of learning projects this material would be relevant to. As they are, this isn't so clear (to me, at least). But, in general, I would encourage the kinds of material here on Wikiversity which could prompt further research or writing on the other projects. Looking through source texts at Wikisource in order to write a textbook on Wikibooks, all of which is coordinated on Wikiversity, sounds good to me. Cormaggio 09:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

2 September, 2006

Networking with other academic projects

One thing we haven't talked about much so far is how wikiversity should work with our "brick-and-mortar" (or is that "ivory-and-ivy") counterparts. We're serious people with a serious project, and universities tend to want to support things like this. Anyone who has had experience in the academic setting will know that the first thing you need to do before taking on a project is to find support (i.e. grant money) for your project.

Due to the magnaniminity of the wikimedia foundation, we don't need to look for funding. But we do need people to provide peer reviews, publicity, and accountability. And we need a "protocol" for how to approach academic institutions, which might be skeptical of our project. I suggest that we could try doing this the wiki way, and write our proposals together.

On the staff lounge at wikibooks, someone posted a link to an article about http://globaltext.org , which is an organisation striving to create free textbooks (they're apparently using wikibooks to write these texts). I've perused their site, and they don't seem to know about us yet. So I think maybe the best way to set the protocol would be to come up with a community letter to their organisation, work on it for 2 weeks, and then send it out.

It's worth try, at least: Wikiversity:A_Letter_to_globaltext.org

--SB_Johnny | ^talk 17:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I, right now, think first establishing interwiki relationships could be important as well. No only with the other wikimedia projects, but wikia places like The PSYCHOLOGY WIKI and stand alone wikis like OGRE wiki. These places would have partisipants that already know how to use wiki software and have simmilar GDFL goals.--Rayc 17:47, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

3-9 September, 2006

Short report about English-language Wikiversity

Hello folks. Recently, Frank has written a short report about the German-language Wikiversity. English-language Wikiversity is almost 3-week-old, and it would be great if someone could write a short report about it. Please keep in mind that the shorter the report is, the easier it will be translated into other languages. This is really important because this report is aiming at letting people from other languages know about en: Wikiversity. Please post this report on the dedicated section on Wikiversity Beta. Thanks a lot, and go on doing such a good work! guillom 09:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking something like this, feel freee to clean it up, I have to run right now:

• The English wikiversity was set up on August 15, 2006, and as of September 3rd, it has:

• 2,511 pages with 195 "content" pages (what is the def on content?)
• 782 users with 9 "custodians"

• The mass import of pages from wikibooks and meta is still on going, though most of the key "school" :pages have been moved
• The title administrator was changed to custodian and a system of mentorship for the job was taken up
• Policy debates are on-going and early on there were more policy pages then actual content pages. :School and department pages now make up the majority.
• A naming scheme is still being hammered out. Currently it is Portal->School->Topic (for divisions :and departments)->Main (for lessons and projects)
• As for content, the following project have been proposed and worked a bit on

• bloom clock project
• Wikiveristy the movie
• (add here)

--Rayc 22:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Some news from Wikiversity Beta

Hello

Wikiversity Beta is now 10 days old and I think the time has come to give some news. I have decided to organize it as a list of FAQ. Feel free to ask questions I have not thought about at Babel.

Just to remind you, Wikiversity Beta is a global platform aiming at coordinating Wikiversity projects in several languages. This multilingual coordination intends to deal with Wikiversity's mission and general guidelines of the project's scope (for example, about original research). Wikiversity Beta is also a place where Wikiversity projects which don't have a subdomain yet can develop. English-language Wikiversity participants should take an active part in discussions on Beta, since those discussions are going to concern all Wikiversity projects, including the English-language one.

You will find more information in the FAQ. You can also take a look at the reports to get some news from Wikiversity projects in all languages.

guillom 09:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I still think the idea of a "Beta" or "Meta" Wikiversity is ill conceived and lacks individuals who truly wanted to see it get developed. There was some talk once upon a time to have independent "meta" discussion areas for each one of the Wikimedia projects, but instead there is until now, only one "Meta" wiki for all Wikimedia projects. And that metawiki has served as a very useful tool. So why is it being duplicated in this instance and what will beta.wikiversity offer over meta?

In addition, I don't see a strong effort to removed content from say pt.wikibooks to beta.wikiversity but rather an effort instead to create pt.wikiversity. And again, why use beta.wikiversity.org when incubator.wikimedia.org is already available to do exactly the same thing?

The multi-lingual coordination does need to happen in some area, but I think having a whole seperate wiki dedicated to just that mission is not strictly necessary, and something that is going to be much more prone to vandalism. I also didn't see any significant effort to address the objections to the creation of this seperate sub-domain of wikiversity but instead a strong push to simply deny that those objections even existed. This is a needless duplication of effort for other Wikimedia projects that already exist elsewhere. --Robert Horning 18:29, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Still lots of stuff on WB

See this page, from #606 down is mostly wikiversity pages. Are these wanted, or are people just making new pages? If any pages are wanted, add them to Wikiversity:Import, or if they're stubs/junk, just mark them for deletion on WB. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 18:15, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that all should be imported, and improved or deleted based on their merits here. - Trevor MacInnis 02:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I would go for some unrealted import section of wikiversity that people could move pages out of. It's getting confusing when they are moved into places that already have pages, and are not merged.--Rayc 02:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Pages such as b:Wikiversity:School of Medicine:Internal medicine:Oncology that only have one or a few authors could be copied from Wikibooks and pasted to Wikiversity with the author(s) listed on the new talk page at Wikiversity. --JWSchmidt 03:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It's getting confusing when they are moved into places that already have pages -- aye, thars the rub. I think the best thing for now is to just wait for individual requests. I check Wikiversity:Import at least once a day and will bring over any listed page... maybe it's better to just work on the page on the wb side until it get imported (hopefully within a few hours or less). I just don't want to import a bunch of stuff and create a big orphan page problem here :). --SB_Johnny | ^talk 08:59, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

"a big orphan page problem here" <-- You can make use of Help with the migration of Wikiversity pages from Wikibooks. --JWSchmidt 10:13, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Reminder: Motto and logo polls

This is mainly a reminder/alert that the Logo proposal process enters the voting stage tomorrow, and the banner at the top of the pages could be changed to "Please vote to choose the new Wikiversity logo on Meta" or similar... Smurrayinchester 20:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Motto and Slogan Contest: Round 2

Please list your support of a motto and slogan here: Wikiversity:Motto contest.

Please consider revising your choice.

Many motto and slogan options were listed in Round 1. Hence, we need other slections round(s) to arrive at consensus choice(s). The following is hopefully a simple and flexible process for inclusion of the most input. It will take some time.

For additional rounds, rather than the idea of an instant runoff which was floated before, it is suggested that we proceed in a simple step-wise way:

• Round 2: Invite more support (and support changing) for options with at least one person supporting. Feel free to share comments in the comment sections that help explain the meaning and intent of mottos and slogans.
• Round 3: Unless there are overwhelming favorites (strong majorities in support), invite more support (and support changing) on options with at least two persons supporting. Please discuss the merits of each option. This round invites more discussion so as to arrive at a rough consensus by the community and as judged, if necessary, by experienced custodians.

Timeframes:

• The first selection round started on August 23 and ended on September 7, 2006, after 5:00 pm GMT.
• The second selection round (which includes the openness of the first round) starts on Septermber 7 ends on September 22, 2006, 5:00 pm GMT.
• If necessary, the 3rd round and discussion process would start on September 22 and last as long as needed.

Comments? Reswik 19:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion sections and this sentence of invitation were added to the contest page today: Feel free to share comments in the comment sections that help explain the meaning and intent of mottos and slogans. Reswik 15:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

School of fictional universes??

Would it be acceptable to create a "School of fictional universes"? because I'm sure that someday some trekies will want to make a "Star Trek universe course"... I've had a somewhat crazy idea related to that but I want to know if it would be Wikiversityish to do something of the sort...? --Halyks 00:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the first learning project in the "School of fictional universes" could be: Star Fleet Academy - scholarly analysis of the science, sociology and languages of the fictional Star Trek universe. --JWSchmidt 02:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I think my first post was on what to do with this sort of stuff...--Rayc | (Talk) 02:57, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

It was your third Wikiversity edit. --JWSchmidt 03:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I Only gave the idea of StarTrek as an example... someone someday will want to do it.. lol i'm not really a Star Trek fan myself but I know some of those "Trekkies"... lol My question was "Would a School of Fictional Universes be accepted in Wikiversity" because i've never seen a school with those type of courses other than some Literature classes... I'ma FAn of the Harry Potter universe and making classes relation to that universe would be something i'd work on, and i'd try to get people from the Wikipedia Harry Potter Project to join in.--Halyks 16:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikiversity aims to have learning resources for all ages. Many young people are excluded from "real world" affairs and encouraged to explore fiction. We can welcome the participation of people who are interested in fiction while we also encourage a scholarly approach to knowledge. Some people never grow out of their interest in fiction while becoming explorers who create and discover new knowledge about the "real" world. --User:JWSchmidt 19:06, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

ok... acording to what I understand, this is possible and acceptable considering the goal of wikiversity... right?? lol we'd have to choose a better name than "School of Fictional Universes though.. I personally don't feel the name... if anyone has suggestions post them here! :) --Halyks 03:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Depends on the angle you want to take. "The science of Harry Potter", "Harry Potter Literacy campaign", "Harry Potter and the effect of populate literature on religious belief". I know my sister would join one of those groups. I myself have been thinking about creating: "MSTique: Literary critique through the use of MSTing”--Rayc 05:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Interiot's edit counter

It's available here. If there are any problems (outside of it not working with IE :P), let me know.--digital_me 04:20, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikiversity and books

There is, it seems, currently a problem within wikiversity. Whilst the links to resources on the web provide useful educational materials for teachers and students, problems arise when wikiversians are directed towards books that they may not have access to or be able to afford. It seems here that until all such texts are freely available online (something I don't see happening under capitalism) an approach is needed to provide free access to wikiversians (and other learners). Here are five approaches I can think of:

1. Wikiversity local groups - wikiversians in certain areas can club together to purchase books and establish an informal library which all wikiversians in the area can access, and can perhaps be administrated at meetings or online. The local group can also club together to pay for one of the group to have access to a university library and/or journals online.

2. Join a learned society - I am a member of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom. This gives me access to the private library of the society. Also membership of such societies may allow you to befriend certain people who may be prepared to lend you specialist books.

3. Request the book from a public library - request that your local public library (or at least one of the libraries in your local network - in England the libraries are run by local councils and therefore each county/metropolitan borough has a library service in which libraries swap books) purchase a copy of textbooks that are required by wikiversians. I would suggest here that due to the restricted budgets of public libraries there is some community discussion on the most important books to request so libraries don't get inundated with requests and decide to ignore them all, or purchase books of lesser import to wikiversians.

4. Propose a partnership between your local library service and the nearest university, so the public libraries, perhaps in times when certain modules aren't running at the university and so not all copies of module core texts will be needed, can carry and lend books owned by the university. Perhaps computers in the library may be able to access journals that the university is subscribed to as well. Public libraries might have to pay the universities for this access (or maybe do something for the university as well, such as promote it, give students and academics free use of library seminar rooms for meetings or do something else for the university, especially if the library service is part of local government - maybe the council could give the uni some land if the public libraries get access to online journals and books not in demand permanently).

5. Approach the author and ask them if they would like to contribute to wikiversity by allowing the online publication of their work, freely accessible (with maybe voluntary donations to the author's charity of choice). More likely is requesting that a previous edition is made available in wiki form, with encouraging messages advising people to buy the latest edition (in other words we offer the author advertising in exchange for their work being freely available, not ideal I know). The beauty of making the old edition available in wiki form is that wikiversians can update it themselves.

I would welcome some debate on this issue, which I think could be of growing importance as wikiversity develops.

Jimbobalina2005 14:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

These are great suggestions, and thanks. I would say that finding local public sources of texts, such as libraries and/or universities, and using gentle but collective force to gain better access to texts is a really practical suggestion. Another, obvious suggestion is to collate all the freely available online peer-reviewed journals in various disciplines so that people can use Wikiversity as a one-stop place to find quality sources (amongst other things). One final thing that we may consider as a community - and one where the Foundation may be of help - is to use our growing leverage in the world of open access to knowledge in order to encourage archives, museums, libraries, galleries etc to make some or even all of their content available for Wikimedia, and hence the world. I know of at least four such high profile institutions in the U.S. that are in the process of either donating their archives to Wikimedia or figuring out how to do so - and this process can be encouraged, nationally, around the world. It may be an idea (where applicable) to do this through the national "chapters" (like Wikimedia UK, for example) - some chapters, particularly the German "Verein", have already had success with such requests. Cormaggio 15:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of userpages

I disagree with this policy; I think it would be good to have templates for these etc. What does everyone think?? --Hotrocks 16:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

We do not need shrines for vandals. Nor do we need pages so they can have something to link to as proof of their "great deeds". And we certainly do not need custom templates for each vandal so they can be even more excited about vandalizing here.

Vandalism is a nuisance and will be addressed as such but it's not a big issue, nor should it be made into one. -- sebmol ^? 17:07, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree here. I have agressively deleted these vandalism user templates when found, and certainly don't think we should be glorifying individuals who are counter-productive to the mission of Wikiversity and Wikimedia projects in general. --Robert Horning 18:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Just throwing in my lot with sebmol and Robert Horning, I agree that we shouldn't be glorifying vandalism, and I have deleted several of these templates.--digital_me 22:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I've taken a moment to write up an essay describing the position on vandals. It's suitably located at WV:SHRINE. -- sebmol ^? 21:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Email

We have a few people who provided their email on the wiki pages, like School of Mathematics:Introductory Real Analysis. What should we do with them, email them as ask them to help or delete it so that the spammer don't get to them?--Rayc | (Talk) 05:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Good question. Maybe change the addresses so spammer bots can't read them as easily and put a warning above it not to post e-mail addresses. -- sebmol ^? 08:37, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

What if it's an email address set up for using this Wiki only?? --82.42.145.158 09:56, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

They might still get spammed. There are constantly programs running through web sites collecting e-mail addresses to spam. This page is definitely on the sites to visit for those programs because of its association with Wikipedia. -- sebmol ^? 11:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

This wiki has a emailing function. We should permote it. -- Matteo 05:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Multilingual projects

How to handle projects/courses that are from their very beginning meant to be mutilingual? Think e.g. of a course teaching a language. Much of its content will be in the language itself, much of its content will be media files of some kind, in addition there will be bits and pieces in several languages that learners already know. People understanding several languages will be asked all the time to utilize parallel ressources in as many languages as possible.

There seem to be three basic ways of dealing with that under current premises:

1. Have (almost) identical copies of the course in language.wikiversity wikies for all instructional languages.
2. Put almost everything on Commons and use it by reference or transclusion in the language wikies.
3. Put all multilingual and non-specific media on Commons, all language-specific stuff into an appropriate language wiki, if non exists use beta, and let learners do wiki-hopping.

None of those three seems to be very promising though, since ressources are scattered over so many wikies, and the most central course materials end up duplicated or outside the scope of Wikiversity. Note that this will be all examination-, feedback- and QA related files. Note also that learners must be discouraged from using talk pages in language wikies for (at least) part of their possible themes, since primary course designers might not be watching those, or even unable to read them, while translators of the bits and pieces would possibly not closely or not at all watch them, since they regard their jobs done.

Particularly self-study courses may thus suffer from structural complexities.

• Not a currently planned option would be to centrally host such stuff on beta or www.wikiversity, and simply include links to it in individual language Wikiversity course lists and directories.

-- Purodha 12:12, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I have a similar problem. I also want to begin a language learning project, but the one I want to begin is multilingual: Intercomprehension between speakers of romance languages. Such project would be multilingual. So I think that it fits the best in beta.

But, on the other hand, I think that "1" language learning groups in a intermediate and advanced level would be more appropiate in the domain of the language they are learning. --Javier Carro 15:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I think that Wikiversity Beta was originally thought of as a place for coordinating a large group of language-specific Wikiversity websites. However, for a multilingual learning projects it would be a good use of the Wikiversity Beta website to have at least one page there to coordinate the project. There should probably be a discussion at Babel about the idea of having multilingual learning projects based at Wikiversity Beta. --JWSchmidt 16:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo Wales (talk • email • contribs • stats • logs • global account)

I think this may be a fake one... but it could be genuine, either way. --82.42.145.158 13:34, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

The account has been blocked pending confirmation of identity. -- sebmol ^? 13:45, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I've asked Jimbo himself. This guy's an imposter. --Draicone ^(talk) 11:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

10-16 September, 2006

Educational resources for younger students

Since Wikiversity is for all ages, I think there should be some schools and/or categories for learners younger than college age. For example:

• School of Early Learning (preschool, kindergarten)
• School of Primary Education (1st-3rd grade)
• School of Intermediate Education (4th-8th grade)
• etc.
  

--Gray Porpoise 19:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Please don't archive quite so quickly

I realize this is an active page, but it would be helpful to allow conversations to stay here longer before being moved to a locked archive. Can we say at least 2 weeks? Not everybody checks in here regularly, and it may take a while for a question to be answered.

I was hoping for a reply to my question/comment about OpenCourseWare. --Singkong2005 08:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Collective Original Research Project

I want to start making a collective original research and i'm just wondering where i'm suposed to put it... main namespace right?

Proposal for research of Music History and Cultures on the school of music talkpage --Halyks 20:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Yup, main namespace :). --SB_Johnny | ^talk 20:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Alright!, I'll start writing the basics now in notepad and start the project page when it's done! :) --Halyks 21:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:School and university projects

Although I assume many people are aware of this, for those who don't, I'd like to suggest close cooperation with w:Wikipedia:School and university projects. Also, if you have a good idea where to link this project from Wikiversity, please do so (I couldn't find a link or a good place to create it).--Piotrus 02:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I made links at Wikiversity and Wikipedia services, Wikiversity teachers and Wikiversity outreach. --JWSchmidt 10:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"Interactive Lab" learning material project

I am getting ready to start a discussion on creating interactive lab learning material using open software. I'm currently aiming at Java applets as platforms, but other suggestions include the SVG/JavaScript tools. To begin planning, prototyping and proposing any needed policies in this realm, I want to start a page about this. I now wonder what namespace this should go into? Should that by a simple page, or a portal, or something like "Wikiversity:Interactive Labs Project"? Any suggestions? Awolf002 02:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

We could start with something general like Wikiversity:Interactive learning resources as a place to make plans. I would like to see the development of a wide range of interactive features for Wikiversity, some of which might not fit into the category of "labs". I've been thinking about ways to simulate biotechnology lab equipment. --JWSchmidt 03:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. I will draft some startup text and get it going when I'm awake again. Awolf002 03:06, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I started up a hierarchy of pages that give space to all interactive projects one may come up with. I hope they are useful. Awolf002 02:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Happy one month, Wikiversity!

37 weeks until your first birthday. (Note the number will change everyweek)--Rayc | (Talk) 04:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Timers

I've been looking into timers. Timers could be usefull for a lot of things:

Deletion debates: Put these things at the top of the debates and no one will say that you closed early or late.

Custodian timers: If the "vote" for Custodianship last a set time, these will be able to tell how long the vote has been open.

Assignments timers: If an assignment is due on a particular day or time, but because of the timezones you need it to be clear how many hour left you have, you can use them.

IRC meetups: Set a timer for a class or for a tutoring to be held on IRC.

Unlike the other wikis, this one needs to be tied to time. Here is the raw code for my first timer: {{#expr:({{subst:CURRENTDAY}}*24+{{subst:CURRENTHOUR}})-{{CURRENTDAY}}*24+{{CURRENTHOUR}}+24*5}}

or: -66 hours until 5 days are up. Anyone else think up a use?--Rayc | (Talk) 04:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

---

At Wikiversity:Probationary custodians we have a probationary custodian who started a one month probationary period on 17 August. How do we determine when the one month period is over? --JWSchmidt 14:06, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

It only works for 31 day months, but this is the general idea: {{#expr:31-((({{CURRENTMONTH}}-8)*31)+({{CURRENTDAY}}-17))}} which gives -68 days to go. For a new person, its {{#expr:31-((({{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{subst:CURRENTMONTH}})*31)+({{CURRENTDAY}}-{{subst:CURRENTDAY}}))}} --Rayc 18:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Correct adjective

Out of interest what is the correct terms for someone who uses and participates in Wikiversity. Wiktionary has Wiktionarians and Wikipedia has Wikipedians, so what is our term? -Yorktown1776 16:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

It was down to wikischolar or wiklar last I heard.--Rayc 18:11, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm going with wikischolar. Thanks! Yorktown1776 18:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

School vs. Portal

What's the relation between those two namespaces? School:Sociology and Portal:Sociology are separate entities, but School:Social Sciences redirects to Portal:Social Sciences. My gut feeling is that Portals should be 'eye-candy' like on Wikipedia, but Schools should be main work areas like WikiProjects. Do we have any policies or guidelines on that?--Piotrus 22:11, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

We do. It's written down at Wikiversity:Naming conventions. If there's something that doesn't make sense, just be bold. -- sebmol ^? 22:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the idea that Wikiversity portals should be "easy on the eye". In terms of utility, protals should efficiently connect Wikiversity browsers to Wikiversity learning resources in a subject area. I agree with the idea that "School:" and "Topic:" namespace pages should be thought of as project pages. "School:" projects organize the efforts of Wikiversity participants in broad areas of study. "Topic:" projects organize the efforts of Wikiversity participants for just one narrow topic area. --JWSchmidt 15:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

17-24 September, 2006

Advertise the Wikiversity in your user page

I have adapted a code from another "advertisement" with a wikiversity logo and it looks so:

w:es:Usuario:Javier_Carro. If you like the idea, you may copy it, adapt it or improve it from w:es:Usuario:Javier Carro/Estudia con la Wikiversidad. I encourage you to use it because wikiversity needs to be advertised especially now, at the beginning. --Javier Carro 19:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

A proposal of language learning policy

I have made a proposal of language learning policy for all the wikiversity projects in this link. Your commentaries at the discussion page will be appreciated. Thank you. --Javier Carro 21:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Main Page: New Design

Thank you very much to Trevor MacInnis and David Levy for their talented and extensive work in creating and refining the new main page design. Thank you also to everyone who shared input and comments. :) --Reswik 01:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yey! Thanks Trevor MacInnis and David Levy! Now... let's start working on the next draft.--Rayc 04:36, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Some Sidebar changes

I'm planning on adding a link to Wikiversity:Browse to the sidebar, since this seems like something that should be there. If anyone has any objections, please say so here. --digital_me 04:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean the "sidebar" at the top of this page? If so, that sounds fine to me. A link to the community portal (the best set of links to info about Wikiversity) would be good too. --Reswik 04:35, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm referring to the sidebar that goes next to every page on the wiki, with links to the Main Page, Recent changes, Random pages, etc... It already has a link to the Portal on it.--digital_me 04:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Browse seems to be the second highest ranked page, it should be on the sidebar until we get something better.--Rayc 04:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Motto and Slogan Contest: Round 3

Please list your support for one motto and one slogan here: Wikiversity:Motto contest.

Following the lead of the logo contest, similar alternatives have been grouped.

We need more people to give input and comments. --Reswik 04:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Signature

Hi, can anyone tell me how to get my Wikipedia signature to work here, with a link to my talk page?

[[User:Daniel575|Daniel575]] | <small>([[User_talk:Daniel575|Talk]])</small>

I don't understand why it won't work. I already tried a few modifications with brackets, a | in between etc, but it keeps moving the ]] after Daniel575 back to the end of the signature. --Daniel575 15:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I assume that you checked the 'raw signature' box? That would be the most obvious culprit.--digital_me 04:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn't. Also, it shows up like this: [[User:Daniel575|Daniel575 | <small>([[User_talk:Daniel575|Talk]])]]</small> Notice that the first ]] get moved to the end of the signature. I have no clue why this is happening. Could you, or anyone else who has a link to their talk page in their signature, please copy that code you use here with nowiki tags around it? --Daniel575 15:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

This is as close as I was able to get... --User:Rayc|Rayc | [[User talk:Rayc|Talk]] 02:59, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The code seems to be geared up to place what ever your sig is in [[User:Name|"Your sig"]]. Must be the metawiki code. Can anyone edit it?--Rayc 03:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, not checking the "raw signature" box would be the culprit. I've got your sig to work find then.--Rayc | (Talk) 03:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Let's give it a try... --Daniel575 | (Talk) 15:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

IT WORKS!!!! Thanks! --Daniel575 | (Talk) 15:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Is there a way to automatically attach your signature to edits? Pedmands |(Talk)

Try adding four tildes (like this: ~~~~) Titoxd 05:51, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

24-30 September, 2006

Yale University to post courses on Web for free

CNN is reporting that Yale University to post courses on Web for free. Maybe we can use them as a guide for creating our "courses" [2]--Rayc 17:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Mechanical Engineering [edit]

I'm studying Mechanical Engineering at the University of Cairo. I've got a lot of courses, lectures, notes, materials....etc. Anyone else here is intersted in Mechanical Engineering? I want to add these courses to the School of Mech. Engineering in Wikiversity. --Moo7a 01:16, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_talk:Colloquium"

Barnstars and Userboxes

Will and/or should the concepts of barnstars and userboxes that are used on Wikipedia be developed and used in Wikiversity? -- Mathboy965 16:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Right now we have Image:Barnstar.png which has had a small amount of use. I hope that all barnstars and userboxes for Wikiversity will be oriented towards support for our online community and its educational mission. Any userboxes that become distractions from the Wikiversity mission or tools for dividing the community will be evaluated as candidates for deletion like any other Wikiversity pages that do not contribute to Wikiversity. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by JWSchmidt (talk • contribs) -- sebmol ^? 17:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC).)

We've also got {{babel}}, and {{User custodian}}.--digital_me 23:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

How to create lessons

Hey,

I'm currently writing a bunch of tutorials for Flash ActionScript. I just wanted to know the protocol for seperating Lessons, how to create them, how to link them, etc...

Thanks, --Ravenstorm 01:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

You can try anything you like. You might want to check if these are of use to you: Template:Learning project boilerplate, Template:Stream boilerplate. --JWSchmidt 01:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

---

3-9 September, 2006

Capitalization

One comment I haven't seen anyone make: We probably should use "sentence style" capitalization (i.e., capitalize only first word and proper nouns thereafter) as much as is reasonable. Thus: Lesson:In statics the sum of the forces is equal to zero (for example) instead of Lesson:In Statics the Sum of the Forces is Equal to Zero (however, in this particular case, I would opt for a much shorter title — say: Lesson:Sum of the forces equals zero, or even: Lesson:Net force equals zero). Using "title style" capitalization is just asking for trouble because of the inevitable confusion that will arise over what words should be capitalized (for example, in the "title case" version of the example page, "is" should be capitalized, even though it's a short word, since it's a verb). - dcljr 22:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. --Rogerhc 00:30, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

This sounds good, so I suggest you propose it at Wikiversity talk:Naming conventions. --Draicone ^(talk) 08:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

17-23 September, 2006

how i can become a programmer through wikiversity

i am raghunandanan from tavanur,malappuram,kerala,india i want to become a programmer my present job is not interesting and i cant meat my expenses with it my english language is poor please help me my email is raghumadampath (at) gmail.com

Well, we do have a pretty good start at Topic:Computer Programming, but not so much of a start at Wikiversity translations--Rayc 17:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no royal road to becoming a programmer. You have to learn how to solve problems, and then practice, practice, practice. There are many materials available on the net - look around, do the exercises, teach yourself! --WiseWoman 20:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Recommend you start with the Python language. It is free. There are lots of people using it and many websites with help. Harvey 02:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I've recently been in discussions with members (developers) of the KDE community, who are interested in putting a lot of their training materials onto Wikiversity. I would hope that other programming communities (including, of course, MediaWiki) will do likewise, and this is, in fact, a key motivation for the KDE community - to have an interrelatable series of materials on various aspects of programming, so that people can flick between basics and advanced, or different programming languages, according to their learning needs. This intuitively seems like something Wikiversity could be extremely useful for as it develops. I'd encourage anybody with even the most basic skills - or even questions - to start from the above-mentioned page on computer programming, and get involved in the appropriate content or discussion pages. Cormaggio 21:52, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

How to delete picture files?

I uploaded some graphics to the page I am working on. When I needed to change one of them, I found I had to upload it again under a different name. How can I delete the one that is no longer used?

I found it very awkward to upload a graphic while editing a page. There seemed to be no way back to my editing page after doing the upload. I had to hit the browser's back button many times to go back to work. Did I miss something?

Harvey 03:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

If you want to make a new version of an image try using the "Upload a new version of this file" link on the image's page. A good way to find a page you have been working on is to use the "My contributions" link (near the upper right corner of the page). If you really want a page to be deleted you can list it at Wikiversity:Request custodian action --JWSchmidt 03:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Because of the nature of a wiki, if you want to upload an image, just save your page where its at, then head to the Upload File section, upload your image and go back to the article. If you click 'my contributions' (or similar) in the top right hand corner you can see a quick list of the last 50 things you've done (if less than 50, everything you've done) on wikiversity. If you want an image deleted, visit Wikiversity:Request custodian action as JWSchmidt suggested, but keep in mind that if there is nothing inherently bad about the image (suitable for the wiki in general, no copyright violation, may possibly serve a purpose in the future) we will err towards keeping it. (Of course, if it is your image and you have taken/created it, we will probably delete it on request). --Draicone ^(talk) 09:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! The "upload a new version" is an excellent solution, but it did not work for me. The picture remained the same even though it said the uploaded replacement was successful.

I knew how to upload but found it very inconvenient to go through all the steps. Finally found it convenient to have both the page I'm working on and the upload page open at the same time in two tabs of Firefox. Recommended! Harvey 03:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Similar situation

I had a similar situation with "upload a new version". The first time I did it, the picture was not changed (or changed by much) but uploading it a second time worked. With another picture, it uploaded a new version correctly the first time. It seems to be a hit and miss situation. Robert Elliott 06:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

If they are given the same name, it's possible that the old image was cached by your browser, making it an out of date local file problem, not an upload problem. If you have that problem again, I suggest reloading the page or checking with another browser. Mariehuynh 07:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

24-30 September, 2006

IRColloquium

I've been putting of putting this here, since I feel like I don't have enough time to do this, but for your approval:IRColloquium. It's aim is to work just like this page, only in real time. I was inspired by a user who came to the IRC channel looking for help with limits, and I was able to point him to b:Calculus/limits. Others, like Robert Horning, have previously proposed running classes on IRC. This takes it one step back, to see if IRC meetings with set times and topics can work on a project that is global while at the same time improving the wiki. In my head I can see like 5 years down the road where school IRC help rooms are perpetually manned staffed by people looking for help, on wiki colaberations will ave brainstorming meetings, and real time tutoring will take place.

Right now, what is needed is a time, day, duration, and ideas for how it could be run.--Rayc 15:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I'd like to access IRC channels without revealing what my home IP address is. I'm most concerned about my privacy, but other than that, I think it's a great idea. --HappyCamper 03:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

We should see if we can get Wikiversity cloaks for IRC freenode. --JWSchmidt 03:21, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikinews has this link live chat on the top of there page. Does that hide IPs?--Rayc 02:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

How do you tell? --HappyCamper 04:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

/whois [yournick-orwhoeverelses] from another client. Checking right now. --Draicone ^(talk) 05:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

It hides the user's IP address under a very random mask (i=3ba7d949@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikinews/x-00b0e1213c0525fe). --Draicone ^(talk) 05:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

So how do we redirect it to our channel?--Rayc 15:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)