Wikiversity:Main page learning project/QOTD/Archive

Formerly used quotes

Henry David Thoreau

"I stand on a notch between two eternities." - Henry David Thoreau

source: Possibly [1] which has " In any weather, at any hour of the day or night, I have been anxious to improve the nick of time, and notch it on my stick too; to stand on the meeting of two eternities, the past and future, which is precisely the present moment; to toe that line."

Discuss:

Perhaps this quote would make more sense to me if I knew the context (what are the two "eternities") but even then I don't see what the quote would have to do with wv, learning, etc.) --mikeu 16:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC) Get the quote right, or remove it. Still don't see how it is relevent. --mikeu 16:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Dont understand.--Juan 12:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I have replaced this quote in Template:QOTD with "Knowledge grows when shared." -Bhartrihari. --mikeu ^talk 13:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

John Lennon

"It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice." -John Lennon

source: Wikiquote attributes this quote (unsourced) to Roger Federer; see

Discuss:

I think useless for Wikiversity.--Juan 12:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Ayn Rand

"The second handers offer substitutes for competence such as love, charm, kindness - easy substitutes - and there is no substitute for creation." -Ayn Rand

source: Journals of Ayn Rand (1997), see.

Discuss:

This quote makes me feel slightly sick. Is it just me, or is she suggesting that love and kindness are unnecessary and useless? --Luai lashire 02:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

With more thought, I furthermore come to the conclusion that this quote does not offer anything of relevance or value to wikiversity. I definitely do not support the continued use of this quote. --Luai lashire 17:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree - can't see how this would be something we'd put on our main page. Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

See also the Wikiversity:Colloquium thread that was copied to the talk page. --mikeu ^talk 17:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any support for this one, and some strong negative reactions. Time to take it out of the QTOD rotation. --mikeu ^talk 21:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Helen Keller

"The bulk of the world’s knowledge is an imaginary construction." -Helen Keller

source: "The Five-sensed World", 1910; see.

Discuss:

Doesnt like. I cant see its importence for v.--Juan 12:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't really like this phrasing - I think we can find better quotes for the (social) construction of knowledge. Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Albert Einstein

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge." -Albert Einstein

source: This version seems to be from QuoteDB which does not look like a reliable source. Possibly a misquote of "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution." source

Discuss:

Quite difficult I think.--Juan 12:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I much prefer the second quote, from "Imagination is more important.." onwards. Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I've changed the QOTD to "Imagination is..." --mikeu ^talk 22:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Victor Hugo

"More powerful than the might of all the armies on Earth is an idea whose time has come." -Victor Hugo

source: History of a Crime, 1877; see

Discuss:

Might be.--Juan 12:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

This might be construed by someone looking at this quote on the main page as making the claim that Wikiversity is that idea. Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have boldly changed [2] the quote to the original (in French) and added a link to Victor Hugo quote because, IMHO, something was lost (or added) in the tranlation. Plus, if someone doesn't understand the language, they might click on (discuss) and join in... Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you would like this reverted. It will go live in a couple days. --mikeu ^talk 23:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Albert Einstein

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution." — Albert Einstein (discuss)

Source: As quoted in "What Life Means to Einstein : An Interview by George Sylvester Viereck" in The Saturday Evening Post (26 October 1929) q:Albert_Einstein

Discuss: Main discussion is now at Talk:Albert Einstein quote

See also archived discussion. --mikeu ^talk 18:55, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Bhartrihari

"Knowledge grows when shared." — Bhartrihari (discuss)

Source: (unsourced) q:Knowledge

Discuss: Main discussion is now at Talk:Bhartrihari quote

Strong support for this quote--Gbaor 14:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, definitely yes. --Luai lashire 03:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Same as Luai lashire.--Juan 13:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Support. --mikeu ^talk 13:07, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Very nice. Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

John Dewey

"Education [..] is a process of living and not a preparation for future living." — John Dewey (discuss)

Source: My Pedagogic Creed

Discuss: Main discussion is now at Talk:John Dewey quote

I like this one a lot. --Luai lashire 03:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

This is nice. --Juan 13:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Support. --mikeu ^talk 14:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, though can we remove the "therefore"? (It doesn't make sense in a soundbyte.) I'll look for more nuggets from Dewey... Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it still a quote if we remove words ;) Wikiquote does not give a specific source for this quote, so I'm not even sure if it is correct. See also "Education is a social process; education is growth; education is not a preparation for life but is life itself." [3] but this does not look like a reliable source. --mikeu ^talk 03:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

:-) A quote can be shortened, or made to fit a context better, by replacing words with a "[...]" to indicate that words have been removed. (It is presumed the words removed are peripheral, and not completely altering the meaning of the sentence!) The original wording is correct - it's from "My Pedagogic Creed". Cormaggio ^talk 12:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the "therefore" in {{QOTD}} - also added a comment to John Dewey quote. Cormaggio ^talk 18:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Victor Hugo

"On résiste à l'invasion des armées; on ne résiste pas à l'invasion des idées." — Victor Hugo (discuss)

Source: History of a Crime, 1877; q:Victor_Hugo

Discuss: Main discussion is now at Talk:Victor Hugo quote

See also below. --mikeu ^talk 01:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the English translation is dreadful and the French better. But the original French expresses exactly the idea that is present in the concept of cultural imperialism. So I'm not sure that this is really the message that we should be giving. There are many educational quotes that are better than this. Sorry for posting this outside the main discussion page, but I'm vaguely against this one, even in the French. McCormack 07:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Plutarch

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." — Plutarch (discuss)

Source: "The correct analogy for the mind is not a vessel that needs filling, but wood that needs igniting — no more — and then it motivates one towards originality and instills the desire for truth. Suppose someone were to go and ask his neighbors for fire and find a substantial blaze there, and just stay there continually warming himself: that is no different from someone who goes to someone else to get to some of his rationality, and fails to realize that he ought to ignite his own flame, his own intellect, but is happy to sit entranced by the lecture, and the words trigger only associative thinking and bring, as it were, only a flush to his cheeks and a glow to his limbs; but he has not dispelled or dispersed, in the warm light of philosophy, the internal dank gloom of his mind." On Listening to Lectures; q:Education

Discuss: Main discussion is now at Talk:Plutarch quote

Need to see it in the context.--Juan 13:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Now, when I see part of its context I support it too. --Juan 15:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Support. --mikeu ^talk 14:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I like. :-) Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Benjamin Cardozo

"Freedom of expression is the matrix, the indispensable condition, of nearly every other form of freedom." — Benjamin N. Cardozo

Source: Palko v. Connecticut, 302 U.S. 319, 327, (1937); see.

Discuss: Main discussion is now at Talk:Benjamin N. Cardozo quote

Dont know, what this have with v.--Juan 12:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Nice, but I'm kinda neutral (in light of other quotes here). Cormaggio ^talk 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so keen on this one. Seeing the backstory it is about a death penalty court case. It has a lot do with freedom of expression, but little to do with education or learning. --mikeu ^talk 04:18, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Zen proverb

"When the pupil is ready to learn, a teacher will appear." — Zen proverb (discuss)

Source: (unsourced) c.f. q:Zen proverbs

Discuss: Main discussion is now at Talk:Zen proverb

I like also this one. --Gbaor 14:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

This sounds more theological, so dont sure if it is good for us.--Juan 13:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Support. --mikeu ^talk 14:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting - I hope it would (will?) work like this. :-) Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

But what or who is the teacher in this system?--Juan 15:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

A teacher is anyone who has knowledge, and is willing to show others. A student is anyone who has a desire to learn. --mikeu ^talk 22:06, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

“ When the student is ready for enlightenment,

The Buddha will appear in the road
And promptly be slain by the student
Whereupon the student will become enlightened

”

Caprice, the Fantastic Flying Scape-Goat for Azazel 12:06, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

New quote suggestions

Agatha Christie

"I suppose it is because nearly all children go to school nowadays, and have things arranged for them, that they seem so forlornly unable to produce their own ideas." -Agatha Christie

source: q:Learning

Discuss:

I suggested this one, and then struke it out as too negative. See also Talk page. --mikeu 16:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I rather like this one. It seems no more negative to me than the Mark Twain or Einstein quotes down below. --Luai lashire 03:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

A little negative - I prefer Mark Twain's phrasing. Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Support - allixpeeke (discuss • contribs) 04:06, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Mark Twain

"Never let your schooling interfere with your education." -Mark Twain

source: q:Mark_Twain#Education

Discuss:

A classic - support (though it's unsourced on Wikiquote, and I fear it may be a slight misquote). Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Support - allixpeeke (discuss • contribs) 04:05, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Albert Einstein

"It is almost a miracle that modern teaching methods have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiousity of inquiry; for what this delicate little plant needs more than anything, besides stimulation, is freedom." -Albert Einstein

source: q:Albert_Einstein

Discuss:

I like what it's trying to say, but I feel it's too similar to Agatha Christie's, and perhaps based on a different, "modern", system of teaching. Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Support - allixpeeke (discuss • contribs) 04:07, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

John Amos Comenius

"Much can be learned in play that will afterwards be of use when the circumstances demand it." -John Amos Comenius

source: q:John_Amos_Comenius

Discuss:

Support. --mikeu ^talk 14:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Nice. Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Shallow? --McCormack 14:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Derek Bok

"If you think that education is expensive, try ignorance."- Derek Bok

source: q:education

Discuss:

It's very funny, but quite sarcastic, and possibly superior. Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm.--Juan 15:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Hiliarious, but inappropriate. --McCormack 14:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I like this one. Education can safe people from poverty. Many poor people around the world work tremendously hard to get their kids to a good school. The result is that their children have a better life (materially) than they had. It is a pity that western countries are neglecting education, but they neglect much more. A big waste and a shame for what past generations tried to build up.--Daanschr 19:42, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Louis Sullivan

"To teach is to touch the heart and impel it to action."- Louis Sullivan

source: q:education

Discuss:

I like it - similar to Plutarch though. Cormaggio ^talk 11:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

John F. Kennedy

"Liberty without learning is always in peril; learning without liberty is always in vain." -John F. Kennedy

source: "The essence of Vanderbilt is still learning, the essence of its outlook is still liberty, and liberty and learning will be and must be the touchstones of Vanderbilt University and of any free university in this country or the world. I say two touchstones, yet they are almost inseparable, inseparable if not indistinguishable, for liberty without learning is always in peril, and learning without liberty is always in vain." Speech on 18th May 1963 [4]

suggested by:

Discuss:

I don't like this one. I agree with the first line, but the second one I don't, as I firmly believe that educating the uneducated can lead to much greater liberty for everyone. Anyway, I don't see that wikiversity suggesting education is ever a bad thing or "in vain" is a good idea. --Luai lashire 18:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you've misinterpreted the quote - it's only saying that learning without liberty is in vain. I'd paraphrase it as: "you can't have an open society without learning; and you can't learn in a non-open environment". I think it's perfect for Wikiversity. :-) Cormaggio ^talk 10:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I still don't understand the difference in what you're saying. However, I re-examined it. If one interprets it to mean that education itself must be liberated, for learning without freedom to learn what you want to is learning in vain, then I can accept it. Is this the interpretation you were describing? --Luai lashire 03:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd maintain he is saying something more general, which is, as he says, that liberty and learning are inseperable - there needs to be a society based on a respect for human rights in order to learn; and there needs to be learning in order to achieve that kind of society. Cormaggio ^talk 12:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I like this one very much, it contain both aims of Wikimedia - to teach or be a sourse for teaching and free knoweledge/information sharing.--Juan 15:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

In the structure of this page, we've rather forgotten to enter a line labelled "suggested by". I was intrigued by this one and wanted to know who thought it up. After delving through the history, I finally discovered the originator. Anyway, brilliant. --McCormack 13:56, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with Kennedy on this. Schools are forms of coercion and so is work. If people don't go to school or don't work, they will suffer later on. Schools are mandatory, imposed by the state, or by parental authority. At schools there are different kinds of coercion. Some kind of liberty is good. Schools should be mainly for learning people skills that are handy for work later on in life. Social life should be kept for people to spend freely (so, i am a liberal :-)).--Daanschr 19:55, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Jacques Barzun

"The truth is, when all is said and done, one does not teach a subject, one teaches a student how to learn it." -Jacques Barzun

source: "The truth is, when all is said and done, one does not teach a subject, one teaches a student how to learn it." "Reasons to De-Test the Schools," New York Times (1988-10-11), later published in Begin Here: The Forgotten Conditions of Teaching and Learning (1991) q:Jacques_Barzun

Discuss:

Perhaps shorten to: "One does not teach a subject, one teaches a student how to learn it." --mikeu ^talk 04:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Luther W. Youngdahl

"Our great democracy can be measured best by what it does for the least of its littlest citizens." -Luther W. Youngdahl, Governor of Minnesota, 1950

I'm not keen on politicians, but the quote itself could encompass both education in general, and the hoped-for spirit of WV. McCormack 07:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Dunno - I think it's patronising in tone, though if it was phrased differently, I could see it being used (though, sadly, it wasn't :-)). Cormaggio ^talk 13:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

True. "Our great" does sound rather like a presidential election race getting into gear ;-) Perhaps, rather than rephrasing (which wouldn't be a quote), one could simply omit the first couple of words with a .... ? --McCormack 13:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, though I think even more patronising is the reference to "the least of its littlest citizens". I'm not suggesting rephrasing a quote, of course :-) - I'm just disappointed he chose to phrase it this way. Cormaggio ^talk 13:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Mind you, the quote wouldn't make sense if it wasn't phrased this way. I think part of the meaning is somewhere in the region of correcting our perceptions of those we consider unimportant. Freeing up education is largely about catering for excluded or underprivileged minorities and outsiders. "Education is the most important part of democracy" somehow isn't quite as catchy. Anyway, next please! --McCormack 14:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Carl Rogers

"The only person who is educated is the one who has learned how to learn - and change." - Carl Rogers

source: Unknown

suggested by: -- Jtneill - Talk - c 08:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Discuss:

John Stuart Mill

"All that has been said of the importance of individuality of character, and diversity in opinions and modes of conduct, involves, as of the same unspeakable importace, diversity of education.  A general State education is a mere contrivance for moulding people to be exactly like one another: and as the mould in which it casts them is that which pleases the predominant power in the government, whether this be a monarch, a priesthood, an aristocracy, or the majority of the existing generation; in proportion as it is efficient and successful, it establishes a despotism over the mind, leading by natural tendency to one over the body." - John Stuart Mill

source: On Liberty (1859), [5]

suggested by: allixpeeke (discuss • contribs) 04:04, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Discuss:

Richard Feynman

"We absolutely must leave room for doubt or there is no progress and no learning. There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt. People search for certainty. But there is no certainty. People are terrified — how can you live and not know? It is not odd at all. You only think you know, as a matter of fact. And most of your actions are based on incomplete knowledge and you really don't know what it is all about, or what the purpose of the world is, or know a great deal of other things. It is possible to live and not know." — Richard Feynman

Source: "What is and What Should be the Role of Scientific Culture in Modern Society", given at the Galileo Symposium in Italy (1964) q:Richard Feynman

Discuss:

Stewart Brand

"On the one hand information wants to be expensive, because it's so valuable. The right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information wants to be free, because the cost of getting it out is getting lower and lower all the time. So you have these two fighting against each other." — Stewart Brand

Source: w:Information wants to be free

Discuss:

I would suggest using just the "information wants to be free..." part on the main page with the full quote at the discussion page. --mikeu ^talk 18:45, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Horace Mann

"Forts, arsenals, garrisons, armies, navies, are means of security and defence, which were invented in half-civilized times and in feudal or despotic countries; but schoolhouses are the republican line of fortifications, and if they are dismantled and dilapidated, ignorance and vice will pour in their legions through every breach" — w:Horace Mann

Source: Fourth Annual Report of the Secretary of the Board of Education, The Common School Journal (Boston. January 13, 1841)

Discuss:

This is one of my favorite quotes, but I'm having difficulty shortening it to a length appropriate for the main page. Perhaps "[if schoolhouses] are dismantled and dilapidated, ignorance and vice will pour in their legions through every breach" though that is still a bit too long. --mikeu ^talk 18:51, 20 January 2016 (UTC)