Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/October 2019

Adding Translate Extension

Hi everyone, I am trying to expand an OER called OpenSpeaks that I originally published in 2017 to help archivists and journalists to document indigenous and other languages. As the project is focused on multilingualism, it would be an irony to not have translations of the publication. But most importantly, there are several forms and templates that I am going to add eventually that can be used for content release, consent, etc. that need translations. But keeping my own project aside, I personally believe that having a smart content translation extension like Translate should be installed here for allowing Wikimedians to translate portions of publications where relevant. Not all languages have and can afford to have Wikiversity in their own language. My own language, which is spoken by about 40 million people, does not have and does not have a strong community to have a Wikiversity. But translating a form doesn't always require a whole project and a community to maintain it. So, I request the en Wikiversity here to share their views below to add the Translate extension. Thanks! --Psubhashish (discuss • contribs) 13:51, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Other comments

Do not support The translate extension is very complicated and requires new user groups, etc. A better solution would just be to have templates that create divs with different language codes (e.g. The following Spanish proverb is widely-known in Paraguay: "{{es|No hay rosa sin espina}}") and if really necessary, we can have individual pages with their information defined as a different language by an admin. (If you aren't familiar with this, see https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&action=info: this has an option that admins have access to that allows them to redefine the language of a page; non-admins can only view it.) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:12, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- There is a {{Translations}} approach already available that doesn't require divs. Subpages are added by language code. This seems easier to edit and support. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 16:37, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Koavf:, @Dave Braunschweig: Thanks for the comments. I'm still checking {{Translations}} but it (or the other alternative Koavf) still doesn't clarify my question - "if any changes are made to the original version, does it appear separately for the translator? Otherwise, how does one ensure that the amended changes are translated in the translated versions? --Psubhashish (discuss • contribs) 16:48, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Psubhashish: Neither of these methods would automatically notify a possible translator that translations were out of sync. Do you anticipate dynamic content that is liable to change or static content (e.g. a transcription of a recording)? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:19, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Koavf: Yes, it doesn't automatically notify but the Translation extension shows a notification saying that the translations are outdated when the source version is edited. So, if a translator is visiting the page, they will get to see the notification. When I first started, I wasn't being able to release new editions very frequently but I am opening it up now for more archivists to join in so I am expecting regular updates in the English version. Now, if the source version is edited by multiple authors, there is no way in the rest of the two suggested options to notify all the different language translators about what has been changed. It would be too cumbersome to document the amended changes or ask the authors to maintain such a log every time someone changes. Not all the translators will manually go through the diff to check what changed. --Psubhashish (discuss • contribs) 05:04, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        @Psubhashish: That doesn't answer my question. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:24, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This all seems a bit hypothetical at this point. We have unidentified participants editing unexpected changes using unknown groups and permissions managed by as yet unidentified administrator(s). My recommendation would be to use the tools that are available, including {{Translations}}, {{Translate}}, and talk pages to indicate what changes are made and when corresponding updates may be necessary. We can revisit the Translate extension after the participants have been identified and the scope of the problem that the extension will solve may be clearly documented. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 18:33, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks Justin and Dave for your comments. I will use {{Translations}}/{{Translate}} and see how it goes and we could have a follow up discussion based on the growth of the community and the demand of the needs that the Translate extension. --Psubhashish (discuss • contribs) 06:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Developing transformative systems for thought

Long read that seems relevant to this community: https://numinous.productions/ttft/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:47, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

editing??

what can i do here? i want to write about Boston, etc. --GazaOaku (discuss • contribs) 14:01, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@GazaOaku: Welcome! See Wikiversity:What is Wikiversity?. Note also Wikiversity:What Wikiversity is not. Please note that Wikiversity is not a place for duplication of other Wikimedia projects. To write about Boston, consider using Wikipedia, Wikibooks, or Wikivoyage. To teach people about Boston and provide ways for them to learn about Boston through learning by doing, use Wikiversity. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 18:21, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@GazaOaku: To piggyback on what Dave wrote, we have other projects that could have information about Boston as well, e.g. q:en:Boston for quotations (Wikisource for documents about the city, Wiktionary for definitions of terms, Commons has media like photos, Wikidata for structured data). I think that things you could do here related to Boston could be organizing real-life learning events like having a meet-up to do some urban archaeology or have multiple users go to a library or archive together to collaborate on research, etc. What did you want to learn about or teach others about in relation to Boston? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:50, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Usage of Template:CodeBox on Wikiversity

This template I originally designed for Wikipedia, and it was deemed unsuitable, as per [1], however, it was noted it may be of use on Wikiversity. How should I go about proposing it's usage, and finding interested parties? Example usage:

{{CodeBox|lua
| 2 = function factorial(n)
	local x = 1
	for i = 2, n do
		x = x * i
	end
	return x
end

print(factorial(5))
| langname = Lua
| tryiturl = https://tio.run/##RYyxCoAwDAXn5CveaMVFwdGPKdVCoCQSWujfV53c7ji40uIYuWmqYoocUzWXWCYNTMVSLOg4sDJlc8iL2wLFaUz0hY4ZwnTpyeRXba7o/BnfLlqnf7iHMMYD
| tryitname = TIO
}}

Lua

function factorial(n)
	local x = 1
	for i = 2, n do
		x = x * i
	end
	return x
end

print(factorial(5))

Run this code on TIO

--MoonyTheDwarf (discuss • contribs) 16:58, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, this looks fun. As someone who doesn't really know much about programming, it seems like could be very useful for several programming modules here. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:28, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@MoonyTheDwarf: You just did propose it and attempt to find interested parties. Thanks! I suspect you'll have more luck actually editing existing resources to add example code than you will just getting people to jump on board. The template itself is fine, but it will take a good bit of time to set up the separate try-it links. I personally would want to know where I'm being redirected to, such as "Run this code on TIO" or "TIO: Run this code". -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 21:28, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Will do. First going to edit it so that site name is provided, then will look for places to try adding it to. Where do you recommend? --MoonyTheDwarf (discuss • contribs) 21:31, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@MoonyTheDwarf: You could check Wikiversity:Statistics for the most popular resources. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 23:43, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At what point is a module too much?

I'm working on a course/set of courses for programming for the Gameboy hardware, and am wondering just how much I can automate via wikimedia Scribunto modules. Right now i'm planning to automate the creation of hex dumps for assembly listings (as manually creating hex dumps is error prone), and this involves building an entire assembler for the gameboy in lua in the form of a Scribunto module. At what point is the usage of lua for automating tasks too much?

--MoonyTheDwarf (discuss • contribs) 20:23, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@MoonyTheDwarf: It's your time, your passion. See Lua. It has a lot of capabilities, but it also has some idiosyncrasies. The real question to me is whether you would learn enough from doing it to be worth investing your time. There hasn't been much interest here in assembler programming, but we haven't had anyone attempt game programming that I know of. There's also the audience aspect. Assembler is a fairly limited skill set these days. I've done it, but I can probably count on one hand the people I know who can still do assembler if they had to. Is this project the best investment of your time personally? Is it what you want to do, even if no one else ever looks at it? If so, go for it, you'll be well-rewarded. If not, I'm sure there are other fun Lua things we can think of that wouldn't be quite so intense. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:52, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dave Braunschweig: I have plenty of time, and want to do it never-the-less. However, i'm always open to ideas, if you have anything that might need done. Writing an assembler is a tedious process in a language that only has floats :p --MoonyTheDwarf (discuss • contribs) 23:32, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dave Braunschweig: Oh, also, it is possible to use MIT licensed code on wikipedia, right? If so, then I have a lot less work, as I know an existing assembler (For arbitrary systems, it's more general purpose) I could make use of. --MoonyTheDwarf (discuss • contribs) 23:36, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@MoonyTheDwarf: That hasn't come up before. In looking at the MIT license, I don't see anything that would restrict adding MIT-licensed content to Wikiversity. Wikiversity (Wikimedia) would then apply the CC-BY-SA license to it, but I don't see anything immediately that indicates that's a problem. You will have to include the MIT license at the top of the code. I would also include a reference to the original so that anyone who wants can get it under the MIT license rather than under CC-BY-SA (both licenses). -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 01:35, 10 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 citation templates

I noticed that some of the CS1 templates have been slowly diverging on Wikipedia versus here (e.g. |url-status= of {{cite journal}}). Is it likely that importing the newer version for Wikipedia will break things here or should it be safe to do so? (I thought I should maybe check before updating a template used in almost every page!) T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)^talk 09:27, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Evolution and evolvability: In my experience, importing is a huge pain and results in an infinite amount of downstream headaches where template [x] is dependent on module [y] in an infinite regress. If you really think it's worth having the same syntax, I guess you can give it a shot but without having identical names for the fields, the templates function the exact same. Seems like a huge headache from my perspective but I wouldn't stand in someone's way if he really wants to go thru all the trouble. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:57, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We always get to a point where someone wants / needs a feature in the Wikipedia template that we don't have here. It's just a question of how often you want to deal with the updates. If it ain't broke, there's no need to fix it, but eventually there will be a need. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback wanted on Desktop Improvements project

Please help translate to your language

Hello. The Readers Web team at the WMF will work on some improvements to the desktop interface over the next couple of years. The goal is to increase usability without removing any functionality. We have been inspired by changes made by volunteers, but that currently only exist as local gadgets and user scripts, prototypes, and volunteer-led skins. We would like to begin the process of bringing some of these changes into the default experience on all Wikimedia projects.

We are currently in the research stage of this project and are looking for ideas for improvements, as well as feedback on our current ideas and mockups. So far, we have performed interviews with community members at Wikimania. We have gathered lists of previous volunteer and WMF work in this area. We are examining possible technical approaches for such changes.

We would like individual feedback on the following:

Identifying focus areas for the project we have not yet discovered
Expanding the list of existing gadgets and user scripts that are related to providing a better desktop experience. If you can think of some of these from your wiki, please let us know
Feedback on the ideas and mockups we have collected so far

We would also like to gather a list of wikis that would be interested in being test wikis for this project - these wikis would be the first to receive the updates once we’re ready to start building.

When giving feedback, please consider the following goals of the project:

Make it easier for readers to focus on the content
Provide easier access to everyday actions (e.g. search, language switching, editing)
Put things in logical and useful places
Increase consistency in the interface with other platforms - mobile web and the apps
Eliminate clutter
Plan for future growth

As well as the following constraints:

Not touching the content - no work will be done in terms of styling templates or to the structure of page contents themselves
Not removing any functionality - things might move around, but all navigational items and other functionality currently available by default will remain
No drastic changes to the layout - we're taking an evolutionary approach to the changes and want the site to continue feeling familiar to readers and editors

Please give all feedback (in any language) at mw:Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements

After this round of feedback, we plan on building a prototype of suggested changes based on the feedback we receive. You’ll hear from us again asking for feedback on this prototype.

Thank you! Quiddity (WMF) (talk)

07:15, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Desktop Improvements Discussion

Is there any interest in suggesting that Wikiversity be a test wiki for this project? -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 20:26, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A link from fr.wikiversity ?

Hello, I tried to put a link from fr.wikiversity on my talk, I couldn't succeed (forbidden). Is it for I'm a new user ? Thanks ! --EclairEnZ (discuss • contribs) 20:57, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@EclairEnZ: Welcome! Yes, it's that you are a new user, and you tried to add an external link. You might try a [[fr:page]] internal link instead. I can never remember the format for a different language. It may be v:fr:page, or it may be fr:v:page. But something like that does work. If you can't figure it out, let me know and I'll find a working example. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 21:06, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dave Braunschweig: Thank you. I have just been added to confirmed users, and I got it.

P-S : I'm astonished that I could translate the begining of a researh without doing too many mistakes. Internet translators can be useful...

--EclairEnZ (discuss • contribs) 21:18, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiversity:CheckUser policy

There is a proposed Wikiversity:CheckUser policy that has never been officially adopted by the community. Please review the text and comment on the talk page there. After discussion and suggestions on any changes to the text I intend on proposing that we adopt some version. --mikeu ^talk 16:21, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ask for help

Hello! I am looking for someone who would like to correct a short text, writing it in a correct English (mine is far for fluent ...). The text is on my user page, but I also put it on my talk, then il will be possible to do it. Thank you so much --EclairEnZ (discuss • contribs) 15:15, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Y realized it could embarrassing for you. Nevermind, I think a friend of mind could do it... when we'll have time for that. --EclairEnZ (discuss • contribs) 18:49, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2020 Community Wishlist Survey

The 2020 Community Wishlist Survey is now open! This survey is the process where communities decide what the Community Tech team should work on over the next year. We encourage everyone to submit proposals until the deadline on November 11, or comment on other proposals to help make them better. To submit proposals, you can check out the guidelines on the survey page. This year, we’ll only be accepting wishes for non-Wikipedia content projects with no dedicated teams (i.e. Wikiversity, Wikibooks, Wiktionary, Wikiquote, Wikisource, Wikispecies, Wikivoyage, and Wikinews). To learn more about the new format, we invite you to visit the survey page. Thank you, and we look forward to seeing your proposals!

— Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 00:57, 23 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CheckUser policy proposal

There is a proposal for Wikiversity:CheckUser policy. Please participate in the discussion. --mikeu ^talk 13:51, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]