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Wikiversity:Help desk/Archive 12

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Learning in the future

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What kind of techniques might be possible when trying to improve the rate of learning in the future? Example, In the film, The Matrix, they "plug" people into the computer and can learn things almost instantly. Is there a name for this? What other "Sci-fi" theories have been offered for this topic e.g. dream manipulation? hypnosis? bio-synthetic chips? Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 18:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Plugging a computer into your brain isn't really all that far-fetched. A W:cochlear implant essentially does that for sound already, and they are now doing something similar with vision. However, even if info enters your brain that way, that doesn't necessarily mean you will then "learn" that info. The same problem exists as happens when you are given info in class or in a book but forget it anyway. They could give you injections of certain substances which seem to increase learning, but those might have the side effect of causing you to forget what you learned previously and you may need more and more of this substance to learn as you develop a chemical dependency.
Alternatively, we could leave the info in the computer and simply access it as needed. So, I'd think "What was the population of Madagascar in 1978 ?" and a query would go to the computer and the answer would appear immediately in my brain. This would require 24-hour access to the computer interface, however. There are some scary issues this all brings up, though, like what happens if somebody evil gets control of the computer and uses it to plant their thoughts in your mind.
Now, as for the short term, I think today's computers could teach kids far better with adaptive teaching software. In math, for example, they could try several different teaching methods with each kid, then find out "student A learns well from repetition of similar problems, while student B learns best from story problems, student C learns best from math video games, and student D doesn't seem to be learning at all, so manual teaching is needed for him". StuRat 22:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I like the idea of being able to access a computer with the information we need to acquire. Should the memories we acquire be stored on this computer also? I think it would be good to have the computer placed behind the ear just like a cochlear implant. Could memory become small enough for that in the future? Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 23:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The size isn't an issue. A W:pen drive, if bent, could fit nicely behind an ear, and those hold 32 GB now, more than enough for encyclopedias, dictionaries, etc. If you want constantly updated info, like today's news, you would want a link to a network, however. This could allow a virus or other malware in, though, so security would need to be tight. I'd use the external computer for facts, and use the human brain to creatively combine info to invent new things, etc. However, if all of human knowledge could be downloaded into a computer, this would allow for immortality, in that a robot could be created with your mind in a computer. This, however, is very far off. StuRat 20:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think the brain stores and needs massive amounts of data even if it uses tricks eg fooling you into thinking the eye instantly sees the full field of vision in full hi res colour. So consider not just how much memory is needed for a few minutes video clips, but the computing power and memory to process that and compare with maybe (semi-realistic) jurasic park type CGI or (mainly experimental) visual recognition systems, both need pretty hefty computing power and time to do what we do in a blink of the eye. If Moores Law holds for a few more decades we may get close to achieving what we now consider unthinkable. A problem is we do not know too much about how the human brain and mind work. Current theories of mind and artificial intelligence haven't helped much and our understanding of brain neurons and synapses relate only to networks of a few tens or hundreds. We have admittedly managed to control live insects with electronics; and we have managed to make smart autonomous weapons probably nearly as brainy as say a termite. We need and will inevitably get a computer brainier than us enabling us to make progress. One wonders if like HAL in 2001 any logical computer is going to recognise Humans as illogical &/or evil and/or destructive.

Regarding what may help with learning, if we can live longer and prevent brain deterioration in both young adults and elderly; or even enhance brain function; then that could improve both the rate of learning and the amount of time available for learning. I would guess medical related science will have a greater impact on human intelligence and than electronics. Then again global warming/warfare may result in a future world with few electronics or humans. Gandee

Well, the major problem in my country is, that people dont want to learn, thats why we dont need any special techniques.--Juan de Vojníkov 20:47, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but "not wanting to learn" can mean two quite different things:
1) Not wanting to go through the effort it takes to learn something. Here better techniques of teaching (right up to a plug in the back of your head), can reduce the effort, possibly to nothing at all.
2) People who really don't want to know anything more than they currently know. This is quite rare, I think. There are people who prefer not to be known as being smart. However, actually being smart doesn't mean people have to know about it, as you can always intentionally give wrong answers. StuRat 01:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Some fields of learning have teachers who are stereotyped as the kind of people who force their students to suffer under mountains of difficulty. Perhaps I will put off learning those things until there is some better way of teaching that is not unnecessarily difficult.
The Mentat wiki http://www.ludism.org/mentat/ discusses a variety of memory systems designed to help people memorize large quantities of information. Are those techniques the first steps towards the "techniques ... to improve the rate of learning in the future" that the original poster wants? --DavidCary 23:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Computer problems

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I am having many problems with my computer and I want to scrap everything i have and start again as if I had just bought it. Is this possible? If so, I have made a list of programs I want to reinstall after this process and there is nothing stored on my computer that I am afraid to lose. Can anyone a the help desk help? I have windows vista on a laptop. Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 22:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What kind of problems appear ? If the problems are too severe/annoying and you don't find someone to help you fast enough: a fast way to use many applications is to use e.g. a Live CD (Comparison of Linux Live Distros).
Are there any system restore points saved for your actual operating system ? Do you have some original windows install cds or was the OS already installed when you bought the laptop ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 22:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your quick response. There are system restore points but they only go back as far as 26/06/08 and I bought the computer a year and a half ago. I want to start again literally and wipe the memory completely. I don't remember if it was already installed but I have two CD's. Works and "Driver and Utility". Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 22:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The cds seem not to be windows installer cds. If you know your windows serial you could try to reinstall windows fresh.
  • In case you don't find a windows installer wher you can use your windows serial I once saw that Microsoft offered virtual images (ready to use) of their vista (limited for a certain time). Don't ask me what version this was and if it is possible to (down-)register them with your legal windows serial. But you could experiment if they run at all.
  • If you manage somehow to get to a good state where everything works on your laptop, use system restore or Backup software to prevent such a thing to happen again.
  • Since it is not clear what kind of problems you have, it is not so good to recommend anything (like: deinstall programs from the control panel > add/remove software, w:Registry cleaner, w:Windows Installer CleanUp Utility ...), but you can try to use an internet search engine if you find something (e.g. another user telling a similar problem - with a solution).
  • How about asking the place where you bought your laptop ? If they are customer friendly they surely will help you.
  • Is it no option to use such a linux cd or linux installation ? You just input the cd and a ready-to-use Linux starts, internet connection is recognized very good and Linux gui is pretty much good usable even for non-users as windows. And comes with pretty many many applications. Perhaps this might then help also: Wine (you can execute windows programs under linux - as it says "can", must not work)
  • try to use the Wikiversity:Chat (saves some time in identifying your problem) ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 23:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • As stated before, the most important thing is finding the serial number for your copy of Windows Vista. If you have that, you should be able to get a fresh copy of Vista online from Microsoft. However, having the install CDs is definitely better (alhough you still need the serial number), as you can re-install Vista much quicker from CD.
  • You may think you want to just scrap the current version, but you may find out later there was some critical app on the computer you forgot about. Therefore, I suggest you do a system restore point on the computer before the re-install, just in case you need to go back and get something important.
  • Regarding the suggestion to use a Linux Live CD: Linux is quite different from Windows Vista, so I wouldn't recommend that, if you're used to Vista. However, if you do use it with a (read-only) CD-ROM drive, this has the advantage of making it impossible for your system to be corrupted, since your computer can't write to the CD where the operating system is stored. However, this will also prevent you from doing many things, from downloading programs to saving user preferences. StuRat 12:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you use Vista you may see a folder called windows.old which is a backup of your deleted files. But it is best to ask someone who is an expert in this field for more advice, as data recovery issues is a complex field. Thanks, AC. --Sunstar NW XP 21:59, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

84522-37-2 molecular structure

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84522-37-2 molecular structure

Hi,I am chelsea,working in a chemical trade platform([link see history]).I have a problem at present.Could you please supply me with molecular structure of 84522-37-2,please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chelsea8611 (talk • contribs) 00:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not familiar with the topic. An internet search showed the number seems to be for:
  • Sebacic acid morpholine complex
  • Sebacic acid, compound with morpholine
On Wikipedia I found this: "Sebacic acid is a dicarboxylic acid with structure (HOOC)(CH2)8(COOH), and is naturally occurring." Sebacic acid. (2008, July 7). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 06:34, July 18, 2008, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sebacic_acid&oldid=224198762
Does this help somehow ? Perhaps someone can continue from here ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 06:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've not had much luck finding the structure, but here are some of the serial numbers associated with this chemical that may help in the search: [1], [2]. StuRat 13:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
According to this site: [3], the molecular formula is C14H27N1O5 (or C14H27NO5). However, beware that there are other chemicals with that same molecular formula, such as CAS:146432-41-9 and CAS:130333-58-3. StuRat 13:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's that word...?

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That word for when classes in a school intermingle: For instance, books set in the historical period you're studying in Social Studies pop up in English class. Help? 68.57.110.183 18:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The best I can come up with is corequisite. StuRat 23:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Synergy might be a way to describe it. Fizyxnrd 22:06, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

history question

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who was abetter president? linoln or washingon?

That would be a matter of opinion, so we can't really answer here. However, you can look at the articles on each of them and decide for yourself:W:George Washington, W:Abraham Lincoln. StuRat 00:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would very much depend on what your definition of "better" is here. Or could you be more specific in your question? Cormaggio talk 10:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is the American presidents meant ? I mean there is besides the typo also the possibility that he means presidents of companies, sports teams, ... ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 15:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I prefer Teddy Roosevelt. The Jade Knight (d'viser) 11:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

History Queston

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How many people died at teh Battle of Saratoga?208.138.53.55 13:42, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just looked only at the Wikipedia articles w:Battles of Saratoga + w:de:Schlacht von Saratoga. Both have listed in the summary box some numbers (also sources where you can find more info). But I am not sure if back then was counted accurate, truthfully, private/civil casualties were counted also ? (Well, we could also count the generations who could not be born because someone died back then ...) ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 17:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Polish Lessons

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Please see Template:Introduction to Swedish. I am trying to create one for the Polish language but I want a red box instead (obviously). Theme = 6 should be changed to....? Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 18:11, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

4, see here for further colors, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 18:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to get more colours for future reference? Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 18:52, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, colours other to those in the link you provided. Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 02:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, that appears to be all the colors supported. However, theme = 15 gives both a mauve header and body (unlike theme = 5, which is a mauve header and a lighter body). Any other theme than 1-15 appears to give a white header and body: Template_talk:Robelbox#Additional_themes. StuRat 11:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FreeBASIC recompile

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How can I have a FreeBASIC program recompile itself and restart with new instructions? Emesee 07:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The type of thing you want to do works better under Linux than Windows, as Linux has more advanced system commands to do what you want, such as line editors like "vi". I'm not familiar with FreeBASIC per se, but if it has the ability to run system commands, you should be able to do it. It's probably something like "call system (CMD)", where CMD is a string or a literal containing the system command. It would work something like this:
1) Call a system command to edit whatever source file you want it to change.
2) Call a system command to compile and link the changed files.
3) Call a system command to run the new executable. You'll want to spawn this off as a new process, not a subprocess, so it won't quit when the calling program ends. Under Linux, this is done by placing an ampersand ("&") at the end of the command line. I'm not sure how you do this under Windows.
4) Have the original program end.
Some problems you might have:
a) If the system commands don't wait until the process is completed, you may need to put a wait command in the program so it waits long enough for the last step to complete.
b) You may need to do some file renaming to avoid trying to write to an executable which is currently running.
c) If there are any editing, compilation, or linking errors, your program will likely continue on anyway, as trapping those errors is fairly difficult to do.
Now that I've talked about how to do it, let me add that it would be a rare case where you would actually want to do such a thing. You could usually accomplish the same goal by having a data file which contains all the instructions, and have the program edit that as needed. Can you tell me a bit about the application and changes you're talking about so I can figure out if there's an easier way ? StuRat 01:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neat; thank you. I was playing around with code the other night, and I guess I was just curious. Emesee 03:29, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I see. I once considered such a progam myself, in Fortran, but decided on the "data file approach" instead. StuRat 11:08, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Format for allowing "students" to ask questions

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I see that some pages have lists of "students" who are participating in the lessons. Is there a standard format for a section of users who are not students, but willing to answer questions one-on-one for the lessons? Kainaw 12:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can always add a page section for mentors. Also, see Wikiversity:Mentors. --JWSchmidt 13:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Automatic picture rotation

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Does somebody know of a learning resource for this (besides e.g. creating animated gifs) ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 20:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Numbered lists

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Is there a way to achieve numbered lists like in the Content boxes of pages?

For example,

1. Foo
1.1 Bar
1.2 Barbar
1.2.1 Blarg
2. Blah
# Foo
## Bar
## Barbar
### Blarg
# Blah

The above doesn't seem to do this. --Devourer09 20:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you may be out of luck. I always manually number my lists for another reason, the inability of numbered lists to handle extra lines. Here's an example:
  1. The emoticon for a regular smiley:
(:
  1. The emoticon for a smiley with a nose:
(-:

StuRat 13:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Maybe a solution should be created. I may look into it. --Devourer09 19:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you could impliment a format of:
#
:#.#
:#.#
#
:#.#
:#.#
::#.#.#

Which would function according to the desired method? The Jade Knight (d'viser) 07:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have the same problem, and I would support such as suggestion! Mange01 14:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Geography project

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Is it permitted here to write a geography project, aimed at GCSE and A-Level students?? Thanks, AC --Sunstar NW XP 21:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We'd need to know a bit more about this project to know for sure. If you want to write some general material for teaching geography, and it follows the format used at Wikversity, it sounds like a welcome addition to me. If it's very specific, like the geography of your town, then it won't be very useful to anyone outside your town, so I'm not so sure if that would be allowed. However, you could create it here in either case. Even if it's deleted from here, you'd still be able to take a copy of it and move it elsewhere. StuRat 01:43, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If it's designed to help students with GCSE and A-level coursework, then it's going to be more broad than that, StuRat. The Jade Knight (d'viser) 05:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Such a project would indeed be welcom here, Sunstar NW XP! We already have Topic:A level History. The Jade Knight (d'viser) 05:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete request

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How do I delete a picture I uploaded at contributions???? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melaniechoi (talk • contribs)

Put the {{delete}} template within indiacte the reason.Crochet.david 07:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Uploading of OpenDocument files and other editable file formats

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Wikiversity should have more presentation slides, lecture notes and handouts. These should be printable, and it should also be possible to present them using a video projector. Sometimes a slide show is pedagogical also for students that are reading the material on the screen, since small portions of text that is presented on each screen makes the student focus on each step in the presentation, while large wiki articles often distracts the reader.

The obvious solution is to show them as .pdf files, since almost every computer can show that format, but if they are supposed to be open source, course material authors also need access to editable document source code. Powerpoint files (.ppt) are very common at the Internet, but the OpenDocument Presentation (odf) file format would be more suitable in an open source project such as Wikiversity. The OpenOffice software can be used to convert between .odf and .ppt formats.

Questions:

  • Can I upload .pdf files?
  • Would uploading of proprietary file formats, for example .ppt files, be prevented by some wikiversity or Wikimedia foundation policy?
  • Can I upload .odf files to Wikiversity, as supplement to the .pdf files?
  • It is always difficult to improve an illustration at Wikimedia Commons, since we don't have access to the original file. What editable file format would be recommended for illustrations such as organization charts, flow charts, statistical charts, plots illustrating mathematical formulas, etc, that can be edited using open source software?
  • Can I upload these formats to Wikiversity as supplement to the .svg image files?
  • If not, where can I sugggest that it should be possible to upload these file format to Wikiversity or Wikimedia Commons? Or don't you agree with the suggestion?
  • Has there been any discussion on uploading slide shows with voice annotations, or other webinars and video recordings, to Wikiversity?

Mange01 14:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Content at Wikiversity (or the wiki world in general) should not only be editable by everyone, but quickly (that's what "wiki" means, after all) and easily editable. I don't think PDF/PPT files qualify. You would likely need to download the source, edit it on your computer, then upload the revised file. I can't imagine a casual reader going through all that, say, to fix a typo. So, I don't recommend that for text. What you have in mind, pages of "slides" with a small number of bullets on each, can also be done with a standard text page with wiki markups, and that seems the better option, to me.
  • Now, for photos we do have a problem. There doesn't seem to be any way with the current technology to make them easily editable by the average reader. Thus, we are stuck with the download, revise, upload cycle. It seems PNG files are preferred for diagrams. However, mathematical formulae can be produced by wiki markup, and should be, wherever possible.
  • Audio and video files are even more difficult to modify, so I would only use them where no other method exists. In the case of video, the film of the bridge collapse from wind-driven resonance seems a good use, since there isn't much call to modify it. Film showing someone talking about Newton's Laws of Motion would seem to be a rather poor use of video, as that can be done in writing, and thus be easily modifiable. In the case of audio, some famous radio addresses, like FDR's fireside chats, might make sense as audio, while a lecture about WW2 would not. Another problem with audio and video is that it can be more difficult to start and stop. With video, you may have difficulty stopping at the desired point, say to see a given formula. With audio, stopping it doesn't help you hear something you missed, you actually need to rewind and play it again for that. That's more difficult than paging up or down on a document.
  • Proprietary formats, like PowerPoint and PDF, should be avoided in particular. Even if a free viewer is currently available, the company which owns the patents may decide to stop that practice in the future.
  • I don't understand the statement "It is always difficult to improve an illustration at Wikimedia Commons, since we don't have access to the original file". Picking on the illustration should take you to Wikimedia Commons, where you can download the original pic and make any desired changes to it. You would need to create a Wikimedia account to upload the revised version, but that's easy enough to get. Perhaps you mean that the version of the pic in Wikimedia may be low resolution. In that case then you're right, you would have to find it from another source to get a higher-res version. One option is to contact the original poster, who may have a higher-res version available.
  • The files types currently supported are: png, gif, jpg, jpeg, xcf, pdf, mid, ogg, ogv, svg, djvu. However, just because they are supported doesn't mean they are recommended, as in the case of a PDF file, especially when used for plain text which doesn't require a file upload at all. StuRat 15:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thnx for interesting reply. A few comments:
  • Is this the best place to discuss this issue?
  • PDF is not proprietary, it is an open standard. But it is not suitable for editing. Wikibooks.org can generate PDF files, in view to simplify the printout of a sequence of articles. This feature might be interesting in Wikiversity as well.
  • This Feature is planned for all projects. Now its being tested. What is annoying as I heard that each collection you pring includes four pages of GFDL licence. So I would call all participants to double release their edits GFDL and CC-BY-SA 3.0.--Juan de Vojníkov 21:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Really ? I thought it was owned by Adobe, and they currently allow full access to the standard, although they reserve the right to change this in the future. StuRat 01:45, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, there are too few photos and other illustrations at wikipedia and even worse at wikiversity. The number of illustrations might increase if we established a culture to credit the creator of the illustration in every article where it is used. Just like open source programmers or companies are credited. GNU and GFDL does not mean that you have to be anonymous, although you have given up the ownership of the code. The credit is the only salary you get.
  • I have found several incorrect mathematical plots and diagrams at Wikipedia. I believe most of them are made by means of MATLAB, or the open source alternative Octave. If I had access to the MATLAB/Octave .m-file or .fig-file that generated the plot, I would definitely improve the incorrect plots, but without the source code, I am not prepared to devote the time to reconstruct them or carry out some back-engineering.
  • None of the file types that you mentioned can easily be edited. Supplementing these files with editable source file formats would be closer to the idea of wiki. Especially at Wikiversity, I think we need to be able to experiment with more file formats.
  • In the future, I think we will use more Wiki server based applications that generate graphics, such as the math equation/TeX utility. TeX can in theory be used for generating all kinds of plots. A sheet music utility is currently evaluated. A wiki server based Octave or TeX compatible application for generating math plots would also be interesting. The problem is that these applications may consume a lot of wiki server processor capacity, and may be security risks - a cracker can perhaps attack the wiki server. But I think wikiversity should be more brave than Wikipedia in installing these tools. Client side applications, based on for example java, would be interesting for interactive illustrations and simulations. Mange01 22:48, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of the mathematical mark-up is rather non-intuitive, and I found it time consuming to create anything more than the most basic formula. We need an easy and intuitive system with a drop-and-drag menus. StuRat 01:45, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mange01 22:48, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"It seems PNG files are preferred for diagrams." Well, at least it's better than JPEG. However, the current w: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (diagrams and maps) says: "It is preferable that diagrams and maps be saved in the SVG file format. This is an open standard for vector image files. If saving the image as a raster graphic, the PNG file format is generally preferred, though JPEG is acceptable. Very simple animations can be saved in the GIF file format. Other formats are strongly deprecated."
Q: "What editable file format would be recommended for illustrations such as organization charts, flow charts, statistical charts, plots illustrating mathematical formulas, etc, that can be edited using open source software?" The SVG format is recommended for all those illustrations. Inkscape is one popular open source SVG editor. --DavidCary 02:09, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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