Talk:Should suicide be legal?

State of the law

Suicide is legal. It is just effectively illegal. Michael Ten (discuss • contribs) 08:08, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

@Michael Ten: How so? If anything, you could maybe argue the opposite... There may be laws against it but they are impossible to enforce. And besides, laws change by jurisdiction by definition. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:24, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

How so? It is legal because there are no criminal penalties for attempting that I am aware of. There are psychiatric penalties. Therefore, suicide is in fact legal, but it is also legal to lock individual up for trying to engage in suicide in psychiatric wards, thereby making it effectively illegal. Michael Ten (discuss • contribs) 08:35, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Debate censorship?

Is debate censorship occurring? If debate censorship is going to occur without prior discussion, I probably will not participate. See here. Good luck to you. Michael Ten (discuss • contribs) 07:48, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

@Michael Ten: Debating the reality of mental illness from some Szaszian/Scientology perspective is so far afield from what this debate is that it's irrelevant. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:45, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

@Koavf: I'm not sure if I understand your statement. Please simply it or clarify it for me. Michael Ten (discuss • contribs) 22:43, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@Michael Ten: The debate is about whether or not suicide should be legal. A tangential debate about whether mental illness exists is outside the scope of this debate. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:02, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@Koavf: As I see it, you are exactly wrong, because the idea/concept of mental illness is used as justification to effectively outlaw suicide. If you explore the myth of mental illness, then you undermine the justifications of psychiatric coercion and confinement (which is how suicide effectively illegal). Have you read any of psychiatrist Thomas Szasz's works, emeritus professor psychiatry? He explains all this. You seem to be censoring debate. Thomas Szasz compares the error of the idea of mental illness to the error in idea of phlogiston, in his book The Medicalization of Everyday Life. Michael Ten (discuss • contribs) 00:08, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

@Michael Ten and Koavf: Relax guys. Speaking of "censorship" is inadequate. Censorship would imply that some authority controls content, but here there's no authority, we're all users. If we don't like a revert, we revert it or come here to the talk page and discuss it (as you did). That being said, I think that the sub-debate about the non-existence of mental illness is interesting and relevant. However, having read your arguments, it looks to me like you were each trying to "win", rather than trying to construct together a logically organized resource of arguments and objections, which is what Wikidebate is all about (please re-read Wikidebate/Guidelines). Today or tomorrow I will bring back the chunks of your arguments that make sense (which are many) stripped out of all the heat of your emotions and personal attacks. Any help would be welcome! And by the way, I think that this existence/non-existence of mental illness deserves a wikidebate of its own. ;-) --Sophivorus (discuss • contribs) 01:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

@Michael Ten: As I pointed out above, I am familiar with Szasz and Scientology. It's garbage. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:40, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Well, I have restored your debate in much shorter and neutral terms. Please feel free to add any further objections you want, but please honor the guidelines. I will probably turn this sub-debate into its own wikidebate sooner or later, cheers! --Sophivorus (discuss • contribs) 13:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Suicide shouldn't not be illegal Nor Recommended

Shouldn't suicide be illegal. Well no it shouldn't law enforcement shouldn't not prohibit or interfere with someone who is having mental health issues. Putting a law that makes someone worry even more about the topic doesn't reduce their thoughts it just makes more street build up about the topic.

No law shouldn't be put to not allow someone to do what they want with their body, no it shouldn't be suggested but Putting a law on it is just something that restricts what people can and can't do with their own body. It's like being a loud to take birth control and Putting and law on it because it stop pregnancy, that is similar towards what the law would be standing for. No suicide wouldn't be needed or so high if people understood how to respect every regardless or sex, gender, race,sexuality, religious beliefs anything. LIlOzzy (discuss • contribs) 04:21, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

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As somebody who is currently struggling with suicidal thoughts (please don’t make all of the replies be about my personal life) I would like to share what I believe the most commonly thought process is for people struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts. It’s actually very simple, will there be long-term happiness for me in the future, if not, then what can I do about it?Do I choose suffering, suffering, or simply nothing? For most people (that I have researched), it is simply a case of “what is the best decision I can make? What is the next step that will cause me the most long-term happiness in my life” and when the rest of your life looks like it will be nothing but pain, then simply ceasing to feel anything actually causes MORE happiness in the long run. There isn’t really an argument here but I thought I should share since most of the people here are making points based on what they see from the outside. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by The bruh bandit (talk • contribs) )

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I don't understand having a valid point on the argument/s and then having them deleted due to someone's personal opinion. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abusedandforgotten (talk • contribs) )

@Abusedandforgotten: It's best practice to not just outright delete most arguments unless they are really bad or off topic. See Wikidebate for our best practices, etc. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:15, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I had a few comments on the suicide topic page that were in tune to the objective topic before, but they disappeared all of a sudden... I created a new profile to further the information on the topic previously stated. I guess I can understand as a new user and I do appreciate your response and concern. Abusedandforgotten (discuss • contribs) 21:19, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Abusedandforgotten: I am one of the administrators here (called custodians) and I am happy to help you make sure that your experience is positive and if anything is confusing, please don't hesitate to reach out directly. In short, the Wikidebate format is several years old now, but is still an ongoing experiment and sometimes, we don't get everything correct. So new users are very valuable in helping us figure out the best way to present this debate learning format. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:22, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Ahh I see and I understand. I am definitely new to the online world and unfamiliar with technology. As someone older, it is possible I have erred in some way without realizing it. Thank you for your quick responses and amiable attitude! I'll try to learn more 😅 Abusedandforgotten (discuss • contribs) 21:27, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Abusedandforgotten Hi, and welcome! I reverted some of your edits because, as Justin mentioned, when removing (or modifying) existing content, it's best to leave a short "Edit summary" (the field generally found under the edit box, near the Publish button) so that others can more easily understand your reasoning. As to the arguments you added, I think they are very valuable and welcome additions to the debate. Thanks! Sophivorus (discuss • contribs) 22:01, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Ahh and as I have read, it's best not to attack or subvert any given comment without reason. I appreciate your actions and apologize for the inconvenience. Abusedandforgotten (discuss • contribs) 22:06, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

It is 100% worth the investment of time to engage with users who are acting in good faith and who want to help out here. I'm hopeful you will stick around and add more knowledge. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)