User talk:Geoff Plourde/mentoring 2010

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This page is for discussion between Geoff and his mentor.

Topic 1: CopyviosEdit

Let me start with first boring topic:-)

  • All works which were copied without fulfilling the license terms are copyvio. Even I copy a piece of text from a website, which is available under CC-BY-SA 3.0 its a copyvio, because I forget to right down original author.
    • How in those cases the original author is attributed? What is enough?
If the work can be permissably used in WV, then an attribution statement should be sufficient, or a fair use rationale. Geoff Plourde 19:10, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, I tried to figure out how it is done technically. The project license is same as source license, so you dont need to do extra work to fulfill terms of the license in the context of the copyleft, but. But you have a page and you should attribute an author. Normally people should put a statement in edit summary. So you as a custodian may delete that work as a copyvio violation and restore it with original author in edit summary. But are there other ways how to do it?--Juan de Vojníkov 20:53, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
  • We don't know if all works to Wikiversity with template:db-copyvio are copyvio than. Its important to control also the date of creation of a page on wv and of a website and compare them. How you can do so?
    • What will you do in the case you'll realize that external website is a copyvio of Wikiversity?
In the case where an external website is a copyvio, the WV text would need to be delisted as a potential copyvio. Depending upon the site, I might also contact them to get the illegally reused content removed. In some cases though, this isn't possible, i.e. mirrors hosted in Russia/India. Geoff Plourde 20:50, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, mirrors are problem. But its like a Google and other search engine. They just reuse the content immediately. So we are partly responsible what we give them as we declare our projects licensed cc-by-sa 3.0. But the answer is nearly sufficient (see below).  . Be prepared on the fact, the original uploader will be nettled, but I dont think that you will have a problem to figure out how to perk up him. On the other side sometimes you have to call the external web site several times and you should send the e-mail to other people or ask for a help at WMF. There is no need to ask them to remove the copied text. We are here to offer pages for everybody, not to store them just here. The right way is to explain it, what the how the terms of licensed are fulfilled and claim on it.--Juan de Vojníkov 20:53, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Got it, wasn't thinking in terms of users, where I should be. I'd probably try to help the user understand his rights to DMCA the copyrighted content. Geoff Plourde 21:12, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Imagine a situation. You creat a page and after two years of peaceful existence someone will place there a copyvio template. Well, right this is a very inprobable situation:-)--Juan de Vojníkov 21:17, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
That would suck. I would apologize for the inconvenience after removing the copyvio tag. Geoff Plourde 21:20, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Each new page from unknown user should be tested on "rights". I.e. copying a sample of text and searching via google. Be carefull that some professional license violators are changing first sentences. So the sample from other paragraphs and more part of phrases helps. Via this method even, possible copyvios can be detected in the languages you dont understand. Do you know what is the longest string Google is able to catch?
32 words? Geoff Plourde 19:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
32 wow. Last time I checked it was 10 or 12.--Juan de Vojníkov 20:53, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I could be wrong, so I'll lower my estimate to 19 (the maximum number I've gotten away with). Geoff Plourde 19:49, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
  • We are able to detect copyvios only from the Internet. Potentially from the books, but it needs extra search via Google Books. There are 3 possibilities how to copy:
    • whole page - it has usually very specific structure rare to wv
    • parts of text from different sites
    • if the text is not the same, but structure so - it might be understood as a copyvio (depend on the law)
  • copyvios to images where sometimes called imagevios. How you can test an image for user rights?
  • Important! Even we talk about copyvios = copyright violations, the original editor should not be punished for that until it is approaved. Until that time it is just a suspicion. So I would vote for that the people have a chance to give permission for copyrighted texts.
  • btw, what is missing to this topic?--Juan de Vojníkov 19:04, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

For the next topicEdit

  • how you can list all new pages and files?--Juan de Vojníkov 19:04, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Special:NewPages Geoff Plourde 19:09, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
special:NewFiles--Juan de Vojníkov 19:18, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
K, thanks, didn't see that on the special pages :) Geoff Plourde 20:41, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, my way of discovering special pages is via search box.--Juan de Vojníkov 20:53, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
{{Special:Newpages/5}} gives below. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 05:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Cool thats new for me. So you can call are special pages like this?--Juan de Vojníkov 05:54, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


  • Why copyvio at first?
  • What is a copyright violation?
  • Where to look for possible copyright violation?
  • How to look for a copyright violation?
  • How to manage possible copyright violation?
    • Wikipedia practices to the issue

  • What to do with during patrolling?
    • copyvio check
    • wikify or template
    • adding category
    • communication to original author
  • What to do with images?
    • upload them to Commons
  • Comparison of licenses
  • What is a Fair use?
  • What we forgot?

Complete workEdit

Hi, could you do the complete work? If I have a look in here: [1] and in other contribs. What about to set there a category and kind of template to promote extension?--Juan de Vojníkov 21:31, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

No problem, I'm looking for a category to stick it in and I'll stub it shortly! Geoff Plourde 22:40, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The permissionEdit

And if I have a look here: [2]. Where is the permission?--Juan de Vojníkov 21:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I delisted these pages due to this diff where McCormack (a WV custodian) had removed a previous copyvio tag alleging the same grounds. I believe he also did this on another page. I am therefore assuming that he had determined that the content could be here, and deferring to his prior decision on the RSD. Geoff Plourde 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Greetings from JuanEdit

--Juan de Vojníkov 06:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Dobré ráno to you as well Juan! Hopefully I'll chat with you in a bit :) Geoff Plourde 18:06, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Preview and edit summaryEdit

is normal practice which help other people to determine what you are doing. Preview than works not to have history of a page long like Long Island. If your browser falls and you are loosing data, than start to use FireFox.--Juan de Vojníkov 19:31, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Gotcha! Geoff Plourde 19:32, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

How to renameEdit

Hi, this is a good example: a custodian AFriedman wanted to change an identity. Everything is OK. But instead of asking a crat to do so, she just founded a new account (see) and moved all here pages there. Now she is having two accounts one with custodial rights and other with no custodial rights. But she is willing to edit MediaWiki:Sitenotice as La comadreja. So if Jtnaill who is a crat will give here these rights (i.e. sysops right) she will have two accounts with custodial rights. A little bit chaos, isn't it?

So the normal way is to ask crat to be renamed. See: Wikiversity:Changing username. It also spare your time, because all user pages are moved once automatically the same as your rights. Now Jtneill can follow chaos or he can rename her, but with a lot of work for him and here. And she will lost her edits as La comadreja if insisting on that name.--Juan de Vojníkov 08:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yep, unfortunately it's gonna be a mess either way :( Geoff Plourde 08:54, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Topic 2: Special, Mediawiki, DMW and CSSEdit

So let me start another topic, much interesting than the previous one.

NS Special is really specialEdit

Well in fact, I dont know nor use all special pages. And in fact every wiki has different special pages. You can find them here: Special:SpecialPages. Special pages help custodians but also other editors to do a better work. Let me see them, if Ill discover something interesting.--Juan de Vojníkov 20:19, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

But of course. As MediaWiki was developed for Wikipedia, some of these pages are useless for us, but some of them are missing. There are also pages, which help us in our administration work, if we dont think administration is for someone else. Lets have a look on them:
  • Special:BrokenRedirects - might be useful. We can see to have here redirects to other projects.
    • so generally if you find a broken redirect, it is important to have a look on history, what links there a delete it. Holly cow! [3] Also when you are deleting pages, lets have a look what links there and to its edit history. Sometimes vandal removes content and one may think its empty page ready to delete it. Sometimes pages looks like nonsense, but if you have a look what links there you may find out that it is a homework for students of University of Cambera to write a nonsense page. And of course. When you move page you should fix links to that page not to have red link or just double redirect.
  • Special:CrossNamespaceLinks - this probably doesn't interests us, but for Wikipedia it is very importnat
  • Special:DeadendPages - this indicates that there are no links, no hypertext. For wp such articles are unwikified. Dont know if for us it is so serious.
  • Special:DoubleRedirects - they are listed there, because they slow down user to get the page. Thats why they are usually listed there. As I see now, because of AFriedman renamed herself. Hope Jtneill will do something with that. With that I have started two experiments:
    • My - xrederict. Want to know if it will be displayed in this special page or elsewhere
    • Yellow - that might happen. It is a cyclic redirect. Do you know if there is a way to find them?
Well, it looks like I haven't detected them elsewhere. Lets wait some time and ask tech people.--Juan de Vojníkov 04:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Asuming that in the case of English Wikiversity it takes about two days when redirects are visible on that special page. Cyclic redirect are displayed twice, but some bots miss them. Multiple redirects are displayed more times (i.e. different part of their path), because the mechanism probably look just for double redirects and display double redirects. He comes also problem with the bot, which understand it as two or more double redirects, when fixing it, not like moultiple redirect. And if we are breaching Wikimedia, lets have a look on this: cs:Wikiverzita:Pískoviště#Juanův acid test pro dobrý boty.--Juan de Vojníkov 05:00, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Special:LongPages - indicates to very low pages which might download longer time for some users. Dont know if we have some recommendation here on wv for the length of the page.--Juan de Vojníkov 20:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, it looks like I haven't detected them elsewhere. Lets wait some time and ask tech people.
  • Special:AncientPages - oldest pages are not those, which were founded later, but those listed according their last edit. I am wondering what is their purpose in Wikipedia or how this "special" can be useful to us. Any idea?
  • Special:LonelyPages - this might be useful here. If these pages are not linked from elsewhere how the participant will discover them. Only via category tree? As I see many of them are without category. But we can find them better here Special:UncategorizedPages.
  • Special:FewestRevisions - any use for us? It looks like it is listing pages just with 2 and more revisions, not one.
  • Special:WithoutInterwiki - thats another tool which is important on Wikipedia but not here.
  • Special:ProtectedPages - good for admins, if they forget they protected some pages. After some time protected pages are unlocked than participants can edit them. Why we are locking pages?
  • Special:ProtectedTitles - lists locked deleted pages. Thats why titles. Good for administration, but it can have also educational purposes to lock just names of pages.
  • Special:ShortPages - probably very important for Wikipedia. Here can list pages which were emptied by author (it might be a vandalism or way how author say "delete it, please"). Very short pages should be after some time decorated by templates calling for their extension if necessary.
  • Special:UncategorizedCategories - not set for wv if we need categories, but lonely categories might be a problem and they should be a part of category tree.
  • Special:UncategorizedFiles - if all our files will be on Wikimedia Commons, where other communities may share these works, than we can categorize all other to category:Fair use files.
  • Special:UncategorizedPages - if we want a categories, no pages listed here is our intention.
  • Special:UncategorizedTemplates - the same as above
  • A lot of work isn't it. One of the tracks will be also about custodian time management.--Juan de Vojníkov 04:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Special:UnusedCategories - might be useful. Why to host empty categories if they are not part of experiment?
  • Special:UnusedFiles - would they be unused if deployed on Wikimedia Commons? It is an image issue.
  • Special:UnusedTemplates - this happens I think.
  • Special:UnwatchedPages - this would show on Wikipedia, how many "possible" specialists are missing. For us similarity.--Juan de Vojníkov 20:01, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


By the way, do you know how to change a specific text in MediaWiki ns?--Juan de Vojníkov 21:13, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

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